The Paleo View

The Paleo View: Parenting, Science, and Gossip

Hey listeners! It's episode 374, and the middle of October. (0:41)

Stacy and Sarah are here to talk about Thanksgiving.

Yes, Halloween hasn't happened yet, but this year don't put off planning.

Stacy sent out Thanksgiving invitations to her guests two weeks ago.

Before Stacy and Sarah dive into this episode, a shout out to this week's sponsor.

Butcher Box is very relevant to this episode, but Sarah could share on her love of Butcher Box anytime.

They deliver grass-fed beef, heritage breed pasture-raised pork, as well as organic chicken.

Everything is non-GMO verified, hormone-free, it's all top quality and it is delivered right to your door on a subscription basis.

With Butcher Box, you can either build your own box or have them pick and assemble a box based on what is in supply.

Sarah has add-on's thrown into her box, based on monthly price specials.

Butcher Box has awesome pastured turkey.

Stacy ordered both Butcher Box's ham and turkey last year and cannot recommend them enough.

If are you listening before November 17, 2019, new subscribers can receive a whole turkey in their first box. This is a huge value!

After November 17, 2019, new subscribers to Butcher Box can redeem an offer for $15 off + free bacon. 

No code required. Just use this link:


The Turkey

Stacy and Sarah have a bunch of questions from social media on the subject of Thanksgiving. (6:33)

They are going to rapid-fire Q&A these, and set the Thanksgiving spirit.

First question, how do you each cook your turkeys?

Stacy and Matt actually cook more than one turkey because they have a lot of guests.

Hosting is kind of Matt and Stacy's thing, so know that her responses are more for large gatherings as opposed to groups of 6.

Stacy's sister gets a free turkey through work every year, which she gives to Matt and Stacy. This turkey is typically fried.

The turkey that Matt and Stacy purchase via Butcher Box is roasted.

Turkey, in particular, is really susceptible to terribly raised farming practices if you are not buying humanely, sustainably raised turkey.

For many farmers, turkey is a commodity with a high demand once a year.

Turkeys are often fed the worst food so that they are fattened up quickly.

We as consumers tell the market what we want. If more of us purchase sustainably raised turkeys, it tells the farmers that it is worth their time and money.

Stacy and Matt wrote a book called Beyond Bacon that covers the importance of eating nose to tail, so this is a topic that really matters to her and is relevant to all the animals we consume.

They do brine the turkey that they roast, and the one that is fried does not get a brine.

Sarah has smoked a turkey before, which she did brine first.

Since a turkey is typically between 10 to 30 pounds, she feels like there is an intimidation factor to it.

However, it is actually really no more challenging than roasting a chicken.

If you are cooking it without stuffing, it is actually really straightforward.

Most of Sarah's work that goes into cooking any Thanksgiving dinner is centered on the sides, the turkey is the most hands-off part of the menu.

When deep-frying a turkey, you want to be comfortable around a fryer and know what to expect.

Roasting a turkey though is so straightforward.

Put something flavorful on the skin, even if it is just salt, put it in the oven and cook for twenty minutes per pound.

A pastured turkey can cook in as little as fifteen minutes per pound.

Sarah suggests throwing in a meat thermometer so that you know when it is perfectly cooked.

Stacy emphasized the importance of a meat thermometer, and you can even purchase a basic one.

You want to put the thermometer in the breast of the turkey and not up against the bone.

Sarah puts stuffing in her bird, Stacy does not.

Matt and Stacy make a side for their stuffing, as they do have a vegan guest at their Thanksgiving and make those accommodations in their menu.


The Sides

Matt and Stacy are able to make a lot of things vegan-friendly. (15:48)

They make a pork-based stuffing that they really like, and then they make a separate stuffing that is bready based, using a vegan bread and vegetable stock.

The pork-based stuffing recipe can be found here.

Sarah makes her mom's stuffing recipe using chopped green plantain in place of bread crumbs. The greener the plantain, the better.

Stuffing is prepped in the bird, dressing is prepped outside of the bird. Matt and Stacy make a dressing.

Question two, what are your go-to sides? 

Stacy asks each of her guests what is one dish they would like at their Thanksgiving feast.

Matt and Stacy structure it so that partners get one request, as opposed to two requests.

Their roasted vegetable platter, drizzled with balsamic over top, is one of the most popular dishes they make.

This is a point of pride for Stacy, that her family comes requesting vegetables.

The recipe for this vegetable platter can be found here.

Stacy has a lot of family members who are not gluten-free, so she usually purchases gluten-free bread options for them from a bakery so that she doesn't have to worry about that.

There are always lots of desserty requests.

They often buy their pies from a bakery, and then make Sarah's pumpkin pie recipe as a custard.

Green bean casserole is another favorite.

Matt and Stacy's trick to their sweet potato casserole is to roast pineapples and bananas and then blend those in with the sweet potato.

Last year Stacy fell in love with Smashmallow and used their Cinnamon Churro to top their casserole.

Sarah is going to try it this year with Sweet Apricity's Pumpkin Spice Marshmallow.

On her website, Sarah has a recipe for an eggplant and wild mushroom-based stuffing. It has the texture and flavor of a traditional stuffing.

You could make it as a dressing by just adding more broth.

Sarah often has roasted Brussel sprouts, a steamed vegetable, a salad, and some kind of root vegetable mash.

Stacy and Sarah both blend the liver into the gravy to add more nutrients to their meal.

Your turkey will have all the parts, so you just use those to add those to the broth.

On a broader scale, rethink Thanksgiving.

Instead of trying to recreate standard American foods, reimagine flavorful delicious foods that you love.

A great example is this biscuit recipe that Matt and Stacy came up with.

Being invited to a meal like this can be a stepping stone into rethinking what healthy eating means.

All their guests are really happy with a delicious meal, and the gluten-free desserts are purchased from a bakery and equally enjoyed as well.

When Stacy was first planning Thanksgiving from a Paleo mindset, they utilized Pinterest to inspire how to reimagine the traditional dishes.


The AIP Guest

Question 3, I have been invited to a holiday dinner at my soon be in-laws. How do I navigate my AIP dietary needs without offending? (30:19)

For Stacy personally, she doesn't expect someone else to bend their meal for her.

Stacy would always be very upfront with her family about how excited the family was to come and spend the holiday with them.

She would then be honest and say that she is working on her health and not able to eat a lot of things right now.

Her approach was to bring her own food and to reiterate to her hosts to not feel like they needed to cater to her, but she wanted to give them a heads up.

Sarah handles these types of situations by offering to bring a recipe that is AIP friendly that she can share with everyone but is kind of like a meal itself.

She will also bring a dessert, offering to bring two to three things that she can eat and share with others.

If you don't feel like you have the ability to make a delicious dessert that would please everybody then bring some Sweet Apricity caramels for yourself and don't worry about it.

The day is about spending time with one another and enjoying company with our friends.

Food brings us together in these social situations, so don't let it divide you.


Use the Turkey Carcass

Question 4, what can I do with my turkey carcass? (35:20)

Make so much broth that you have to freeze it.

Matt and Stacy make turkey soup with the first round of broth, when the carcass still has the bits and pieces of meat on the bone.

It is not as intense of a broth because the bones aren't cooked as long so that the meat doesn't go bad.

They then take the carcass and do a second round broth prep in the Instant Pot.

Stacy reminded listeners when you are making broth, do not add vegetables in the beginning.

Go back and listen to these podcast episodes on broth (part 1, part 2 and part 3).

If you are making good broth, you are just adding enough water for the bones to be covered and then cooking for multiple rounds.

If you want to add aromatics do it at the very end.

Sarah would do a 36 to 48-hour broth on the stovetop, which is her preferred way to make broth.

The smell of broth cooking makes Sarah think of fall.


Leftovers & Pets

Question 5, is it safe to give pets bits of turkey or other leftovers? (39:45) 

Generally, meat bits are pretty safe. If they are use to a raw diet you could give them the giblets cut up into small pieces.

If they are not use to a raw diet, you could give them the cooked version.

Cats don't tolerate vegetables that well, but dogs can tolerate a little bit.

If you are use to making pet food, you would simply use the same formulas.

If you are not, you would use it as an addition to your normal purchased dog/cat food.

The turkey broth, unseasoned, is great for your pets.

The same things that are toxic, like chocolate, are still toxic so avoid those.

Stacy again wanted to reiterate that if you are not blending your liver and giblets into your gravy, your animals will love that.

Poultry bones are not ok to give your pets.

However, you can give them the cartilage.


The Leftovers

Stacy and Sarah's feelings around dark and white turkey meat. (44:03)

A mayo-based turkey salad recipe is one of Stacy's favorite ways to put the leftover white meat to good use.

There is also a Thai dish that Matt and Stacy love to create with their leftover turkey meat.

Sarah likes to freeze one meal worth of leftovers for the four of them.

They then pull that meal out of the freezer at a later time when they can appreciate all those flavors again.


Staying On Plan

Last question, how do you each stay on the wagon during the holiday season? (47:37)

Stacy simply knows what is not going to make her feel good and she doesn't eat those things.

While she has talked about this before, you are choosing this lifestyle because it helps you feel your best.

If you decide that you are going to eat things that you might not normally eat on Thanksgiving, examine your health goals and plan accordingly.

If you don't yet know what foods make you feel good or bad, maybe a holiday isn't the right day to test those foods.

Sarah's site has great resources on how to eliminate and reintroduce to test how different foods make you feel.

Now is a great time to explore these questions, so that as the holiday approaches you can eat in a way that feels right for your holiday enjoyment and well-being.

Don't treat from now until New Year's Day as a free for all.

Stacy's mindset is not that she can't eat something, it's that she doesn't choose to eat something.

You are in charge of your health is a powerful mindset.

The mindset piece for Sarah is how do you define, 'on the wagon'?

It is much easier to navigate this season allowing and choosing some indulgences while keeping on the right side of the line of 'what is going to wreck me'.

If you have been on this health journey for a while and understand your body, this is an easier process to tackle.

You ultimately need to understand, what are the foods that are going to make me ill? What are the foods that are going to wreck me?

Also, what foods are going to give me a side effect that is tolerable?

Sarah also recommends having a strong knowledge of what your body needs to thrive.

How do these needs shift around stress, sleep and activity levels?

When you understand your body really well, it is a question of avoiding wrecking ourselves with foods that we know just don't work for us.

It stops being a diet at that point, and it starts being a choice on how you eat to support yourself. And it starts being an actual lifestyle.

It is hard to get to that point if you have been Paleo for two months and this is your first holiday season.

It takes time to experiment and learn what works best for you.

Sarah has to work hard to maintain nutrient density throughout the holiday season.

You will reach the point of knowing what works for you as an individual, but you have to give yourself time to experiment and observe.

Sarah encourages those who are new to this lifestyle to not try to muscle your way through staying on the wagon during the holidays.

Instead, think of this season as a way to understand your body better and think of it in terms of what you have learned so far.

Think of this as the journey of understanding yourself and knowing what is important to you when it comes to supporting your lifelong health.

Sometimes the food is really secondary, and what is actually impacting our health in this season is less sleep, alcohol consumption, stress increases, etc.

Focusing on keeping the lifestyle stuff actually helps the diet part.

Think of it as a journey, not on the wagon and off the wagon.

Think of this season in the most positive framework possible.


Closing Thoughts

Stacy loved Sarah's wrap up, and the amazing points she emphasized. (58:08)

Remember, taking your probiotics when you are surrounded by extra sugar is very helpful.

Stacy and Sarah both prefer Thrive Probiotics.

If you are not current Butcher Box subscribers, take advantage of the amazing free turkey offer.

Visit this link for more information.

Thank you so much for listening! And thank you to Butcher Box for sponsoring this show!

Stacy and Sarah will be back again next week with a very science-heavy topic that Sarah has been working on for a few weeks.

If you have questions that you would like to submit, feel free to use the contact forms on both Stacy and Sarah's sites of their social media channels.

Be sure to share this show with someone who you think could benefit from these tips.

And of course, leaving a review on iTunes is a great way to ensure that others find out about this show. (1:00:52)

Welcome back to the Paleo View listeners - episode 373! (0:41)

Sarah has 98% of her voice back, and it is almost all the way better.

Stacy is into powdered vegetables.

It is interesting to Sarah that they have done 10 to 15 episodes tackling vegetables from different perspectives.

This episode is part of the 'how many vegetables' series, where Stacy and Sarah explain the reasons behind a high vegetable consumption diet.

Stacy corrected Sarah and noted that they have likely discussed a high vegetable diet for 373 episodes.

Sarah has always thought of powdered veggies as a wholefood supplement to make a high veggie diet doable.

Before the hosts dive into the meat of the show; this week's episode is sponsored by Joovv.

Red and infrared light therapy can benefit just about every system in the human body.

For Stacy and Sarah in particular, Joovv red light therapy has helped reduce inflammation, regulate the immune system, reduce pain, improve thyroid health, improve sleep quality and more.

You can learn more by visiting this link here.

Stacy wanted to remind listeners, that Joovv does offer different sizes with various price points. Check them out!


Powdered Fruits & Veggies

Listener Riley listened to the 'how many vegetables' series and had a follow-up question in reference to the celery juice episode. (9:03)

Riley asks, "what about the OPPOSITE of juicing?

So many people are starting to offer these powdered greens, mushrooms, fruits, etc. to pack in nutrients.

When Sarah was talking about the nutrients, fiber, and phytochemicals that get lost in the juicing process, it made me wonder if any of those are lost in the drying/ powdering process, as well?"

Stacy wanted to take a moment to remind listeners that the point of vegetables is that they are full of health benefits.

If the only way we are consuming vegetables is by "sneaking them" then we are not teaching how important these vegetables are for health long-term.

There are things that we can do to help kids build up their taste for vegetables.

However, as adults, we need to eat vegetables and show our kids we are eating vegetables.

We have to show our kids that no matter how busy we are and no matter where we go to eat, we can and should incorporate vegetables.

Stacy wanted to lay this groundwork before they discuss powders and juicing.

Sarah wants to remind listeners of the key message here. (15:45)

High vegetable consumption is fundamental for longterm health.

The most sustainable and affordable way to achieve that is not by relying on supplements.

Sarah is not an anti-supplement person, but she doesn't think they are our first line.

Supplements are a fine-tuning tool.

When we are using supplements to replace something we are having a hard time consuming as part of our diet, we need to ask ourselves why.

Sarah thinks there is a healthy balance where we are making an effort to eat as many fresh vegetables as we can and teaching that behavior to our children.


The Dehydration & Grinding Process

There are two different classes of methods when it comes to dehydrating vegetables. (18:52)

One is with heat and one is with refrigeration, and there are various technologies within these two categories.

The temperatures used with the heat method varies but is typically between 60 and 80 degrees Celcius.

With some methods, the temperature gets so high that the vegetables are being cooked during the dehydration process.

Opposite to the heat methods is basically freeze-drying.

With the heat-based dehydration methods, you are losing nutrients.

It is not as bad as some people think, but it varies by the food, the exact process, and the nutrient that you are looking to measure.

One paper, in particular, was looking at fresh soups versus dry powder mixes that were then mixed to make a soup and the difference in nutrient retention.

This study was looking at the nutrients in the tomato, pumpkin, and onion.

They also used a nutrient density score in this test, measuring the fiber content, magnesium, iron, zinc, potassium, vitamin A, vitamin B1, vitamin B2, vitamin B3, vitamin B6, vitamin C, and vitamin K1.

The dried and powdered tomato only had 67% of the equivalent of the fresh tomato. So it lost 1/3 of its nutrients in the dehydration process.

The onion had 95% compared to fresh.

The pumpkin had 93% compared to fresh.

Certain nutrients are more volatile than others.

This shows you that it is really hard to make a blanket statement regarding the change in nutrients when converting fresh vegetables to powder form.

Vegetables offer us fiber that is important to our gut microbiome, important vitamins and minerals, and antioxidant phytochemicals.

When you start to look at antioxidant phytochemicals, this is where heat drying methods start to seem unsatisfactory.

Studies have shown that in hot air drying methods, the powder can have as little as three percent of the flavonoid content as the starting fresh food.

It seems as though, the higher the temperature of the drying process, the lower the nutrient content is of the end product.

Look for labels that include the words raw and/or low temperature.

Minerals tend to not be lost in this process, but vitamins and phytochemicals are.

It depends on how you are measuring nutrient loss, the exact food, and the exact dehydrating and powdering process.

Most of the typical grinding techniques to make a vegetable powder also cause loss of nutrients. (26:23)

The normal methods for grinding after convection dehydration, or hot air drying, would add mechanical heat.

There have been various studies looking at what happens additionally to nutrients after the food has been dehydrated when it is ground.

It is shown that there can be an additional loss of volatile compounds by 30%, and also lose most of the flavonoids.

Looking at high antioxidant fruit powders, studies showed that by the time you dehydrate those and use mechanical grinding, the finished product has no antioxidant capacity.

There are some processes where they pre-chill the food, pre-cool the equipment, or they add some coolant to the process to keep the food from getting too hot.

This process will help to reduce nutrient loss.

Overall, this is a challenge for the food industry, as there is a market for vegetable powders.

However, through the standard inexpensive ways of creating them, you can lose some of the most compelling nutrients that are in the food that makes it a healthy food.


The Nutrient-Density Factor

With the freeze-drying technique, this process is done with very cold temperatures, in a vacuum. So it is done in the absence of oxygen.

Freeze drying is fantastic for retaining color, shape, aroma, flavor profile, and nutritional value.

There are some foods that are more susceptible to nutrient loss even under freeze-drying conditions.

However, when you are looking at a food that is more susceptible to nutrient loss, you are looking at a 10 to 20% compared to 97% loss of nutrients.

Most of the studies have shown that nutrient loss is more in the 5% range.

So you are retaining more of the vitamin C, antioxidant phytochemicals, and a lot more of the other vitamins.

There has been a huge variety of studies that looked at fruit and vegetable freeze-drying.

These studies showed that freeze-drying is the best method for nutrient and phytochemical content retention.

Stacy remembered that NASA freeze-dries the astronauts' food. (33:27)

NASA clearly has this figured out.

There are studies showing that freeze-drying can even increase phytochemicals.

Consuming something freeze-dried is pretty close to equivalent to consuming fresh food.

To maintain the nutrients, this means that the freeze-drying needs to be combined with a grinding technique that keeps the powder cold.

There are two grinding techniques that are typically used with freeze-dried foods.

In scientific details, Sarah described more about how the dehydration process works versus the freeze-drying process.


Powdered Vegetables & Fruits Role on Health

There have been some studies looking at powdered vegetable supplements and shown some health benefits. (40:34)

There was a four-week study in ten people where they were given two tablespoons of a greens powder.

The results showed that the powder improved their antioxidant capacity and reduced oxidized proteins and oxidized lipids in the blood.

There was a ninety-day study in forty people with high blood pressure, who were given two tablespoons of a greens powder daily.

They showed a reduction in blood pressure over three months.

However, you see the same effects in studies when you just give them more vegetables.

It is nice to see that a powdered vegetable supplement can show measurable health effects. However, there is nothing special about powdered vegetables.

It is worth discussing though, that there is one potential exception.

And this is the effect of a smaller fiber particle size on the microbiome.

This is relevant to a vegetable or fruit powder but is also relevant to making a smoothie or soup in a high powered blender.

Different foods are fermented faster at a small particle size, and others ferment faster at large particle sizes.

The details of fiber structure matter.

The detail of the molecular structure matters in terms of what types of bacteria can access it, how easily they can access it, and how easily they can use it as food.

This is why a high variety of vegetables is really important for supporting a healthy and diverse gut microbiome.

Additionally, this is why we want to mix up consuming both raw and cooked vegetables.

When it comes to the gut microbiome there is not a concise statement that can be made regarding powdered vegetables.

We ideally need to consume a mix of fibers; some that ferment slowly and some that ferment quickly. This is so that fiber can be digested throughout the digestive tract.


In Summary

There is nothing wrong with powdered fruit and veggies from a gut microbiome perspective. In fact, here are times where they might be beneficial.

There is not an argument to be made in favor of powdered fruits and vegetables from a gut microbiome perspective.

So whether we look at it from a nutrient perspective or a gut microbiome perspective, we are basically seeing the same thing.

Freeze-dried retains nutrients and that there is nothing about vegetable powders that makes them a compelling substitute for fresh fruits and vegetables.

The only caveat is how powders can fit into our lives with ease and convenience.

Stacy adds powdered veggies to smoothies, using the blend Sarah helped create with Vital Proteins.

It isn't something Stacy has every day. However, she finds that it is a great way to get in veggies when she isn't in the mood to eat a meal.

With her meals, Stacy is always looking for ways to add micronutrients with her macronutrients.

Stacy shared more on her go-to smoothie recipe.

The Vital Proteins collagen veggie blend is AIP. Two small scoops have a serving of collagen peptides, two servings of vegetables and half a serving of high antioxidant fruit.

This specific blend has eleven fruits and vegetables in it.

The amount of freeze-dried vegetable powder that you have to consume to equate to a serving can vary dramatically from company to company.

Using the fiber grams and calories, you can compare how much of the powder you need to get to equal to how much fresh.

Sarah did a bit of research on various brands of powdered vegetables, looking at the cost and serving comparison of powdered versus fresh produce.

The goal here is to consume more fruits and vegetables and to make behavioral changes in our life that support lifelong health.

We need to evaluate what is our challenge to consuming more fresh vegetables.

When people have a lot of GI symptoms when they consume a lot of vegetables, often vegetable powders can be a lot easier on the digestive tract.

In this particular example, powdered vegetables can be an entry point into consuming more fresh fruits and vegetables for people who are recovering from GI conditions.

Look for a powder that has been freeze-dried, or lowest temperature processing possible.

Also, do your own math to find out what the fresh equivalent is. Do not count on the servings on the label to inform you what the fresh servings are.

Work on adding more fruits and vegetables to your diet. And potentially use vegetable powders as a really good tool when/if needed.

Vegetable powders hit most of the pro column checks that Sarah would look for.


Closing Thoughts

Sarah thinks it's awesome that we have something like vegetable powders available to us. It makes consuming higher amounts of fresh fruits and vegetables easy to fit into busy lives.

Stacy wanted to thank Joovv again for sponsoring this show. (1:01:41)

Sarah and Stacy both use and love Joovv.

Check out this podcast episode for more on how Joovv plays an important role in Stacy and Sarah's health journey.

And learn more about the Joovv products here:

So drink your collagen veggie blend smoothie while you are using your Joovv and think of how your body is loving it.

Thanks for listening! And of course, Stacy and Sarah will be back again next week! (1:02:43)

Welcome back Paleo View! (0:41)

This week Stacy and Sarah had intended to bring a science-heavy vegetable show to listeners.

However, once you hear Sarah talk you will find out why the hosts have decided to no let her talk for an hour.

Sarah is on day six of the bug she is fighting.

She feels that her voice has improved. There was a twenty-four-hour window where she wasn't able to talk at all.

Stacy thought it would be great to give Sarah's voice a rest and to share an update on life.

She has even done research on a topic she would like to share with listeners.

Matt and Stacy's house is officially on the market.

The day before the house went to market, Stacy's back completely seized up and she is on day nine of this flair.

This is the longest stretch of time she has been down from her back injury.

Stacy learned a lot from this flair, as she wasn't doing the things she normally does to take of herself.

In the midst of a stressful period in life, Stacy got a tattoo in memory of Andrew, along with Matt and Matt's youngest brother.

The tattoo is very tiny. However, as shared on this podcast episode, tattoos are an immune agitator.

There were many stressful factors piling up on Stacy, and the minute that the house went to market her back started hurting.

It's not a coincidence. The stress causes muscle tightness, the muscle tightness constricts her spine, causing the nerve to be pinched.

Stacy knows what is happening and has physical therapy exercises, supplements, and time to rest.

Luckily, now she is one the up and up.

As a reminder to listeners, whatever health issues you have had previously or have ongoing flairs with, stress management is vital.

Bone broth can only take you so far, and if you aren't listening to your body you can miss the warning signs.

Stacy has been utilizing the hot tub while recovering, and through research has found that there are multiple benefits.(9:12) 

Through her research, Stacy has found that there are multiple benefits to hot baths. There are also some risks, so this might not be for everyone.

There were significant studies that showed that taking a couple of hot baths a day would reduce your chance of heart attack and stroke.

The research showed, that the hot soak increases your heart rate while decreasing your blood pressure at the same time.

You also sweat while in the hot tub, which allows you to detoxify additional toxins.

For Stacy, the hot water relaxes her muscles, which is a trifecta of goodness.

Stacy also read in a study that time in hot soaks reduces inflammation, which makes sense.

Sarah really hears Stacy on the importance of looking after herself.

When Sarah doesn't have control over her environment when she is traveling, or if she doesn't have the ability to recover after traveling, the chances of her getting sick are really high.

Sarah use to get sick far more often before Paleo. However, now Sarah gets sick when traveling or publishing a book.

In particular, with this last trip, between the physically stressful travel itinerary, the jetlag, the emotional stress from the family crisis, and then going into work mode, set her up for a crash.

Sarah also was exposed to someone with laryngitis, while dealing with a weakened immune system from traveling.

It doesn't hurt for Sarah to swallow, but she can feel the burn of the inflammation and her neck hurts.

Sarah doesn't feel good and hasn't for the past week.

She has been sleeping as much as she can and working as little as she can.

Sarah is also trying to reschedule things that can be rescheduled, or making the choice to simply not do things that don't have to be done right now.

It is frustrating to have a body that doesn't allow Sarah to abuse it. However, at the same time, it helps Sarah to stay on the straight and narrow.

One of the most common questions that Sarah receives from people is, 'how do you do it all?'.

And this is how she does it. It sometimes takes everything out of her and then she has to drop everything for one to three weeks while she recovers.

Stress management is always Sarah's challenge. The things she wants to do, while they make her brain happy, don't always make her body happy.

She has to balance what Sarah physically needs to be healthy, versus what she wants to do with her knowledge base, her talents, and her passions.

This often feels like Sarah is walking a tightrope trying to balance these things.

She didn't balance these things, and now here she is sick.

Stacy is glad that Sarah is on the up, but thinks she needs more of the things that will help her recover.

Sarah and Stacy plan to talk next week and return with an energized Sarah.

Listeners, thank you for tuning in and for having patience with Stacy and Sarah's peeks in their journey.

If you are feeling well, appreciate it. Think about the things you are doing that make you feel that way, so that the next time you are not feeling well, you too can have a path to recovery.

Thanks again for being here! And thank you, Sarah, for coming on and pushing through! (20:21)

Welcome back Paleo View, and Sarah welcome back to the state! (0:41)

Sarah is feeling super jet-lagged. On her trip to Canada, Sarah visited her Dad for a few days. While there she cooked about a month's worth of food for him and reviewed dietary changes.

They also reviewed the details of his medications and how these will impact his life.

Sarah found out that her Dad was actually dead for 10 minutes. He had a widowmaker heart attack and less than a 10% chance of waking up from the medically induced coma. Once he did wake up, he had a minuscule chance of not having a crippling level of brain damage. However, he is fine.

While Sarah's Dad is still recovering and healing from all that happened, he beat all the odds and it is amazing. He is feeling motivated by all that he can do from this point forward.

It was a busy few days with her Dad, followed by a trip to Santa Rosa, California where she gave a presentation for a medical school event.

Sarah is home and trying to get back to Eastern times and into a routine. In a lot of ways, this trip was very stressful.

This week's episode is a science-y one. Postpartum thyroiditis is a topic that Stacy wishes she would have known more about early on in her health journey. Stacy's first thyroid crash when she was done nursing Wesley.

The research Sarah did for this show explained a lot of why she felt the way she did when she was pregnant, and how she felt after birth, and then after weaning.

It was actually because of the way Sarah was feeling after she weaned her youngest daughter that brought her to Paleo in the first place. All of the symptoms she was struggling with were very much hyperthyroid symptoms.

This episode is sponsored by EverlyWell; a brand that Stacy and Sarah love because they provide at-home testing kits for a huge range of lab tests.

Most relevant to this episode, they offer a thyroid panel. For more on the many tests they offer and how the at-home testing works, visit here.

If you get the thyroid test and are looking to understand those results, these podcast episodes (245, 341, 134)  would be good resources of information.


Reader Question

Heather's question that sparked today's episode theme: (11:28)

Hey Sarah and Stacy! I love you guys so much and am so grateful to have you and all of the amazingly helpful resources you’ve created as I navigate my life with Hashimoto’s.

My question is this: I’m getting back to exercising after having a baby and am noticing that my heart rate goes wicked high (180, sometimes 190+ when I’m really pushing) during a cardio workout, even if my perceived effort is only a 7 or 8.

I’ve backed off the intensity but am still getting readings into the 170s when my perceived effort is only maybe a 5. (Note: this is based on the readings on the treadmill/elliptical/bike etc. which I know aren’t the most accurate, but until I get a new HR monitoring device it’s all I’ve got).

This is SO FRUSTRATING because I want to push myself but am afraid I may be doing more harm than good.

Is this situation common among people with an autoimmune disease?

All I can find online is that people with this situation should “see their doctor to make sure it’s not something else” (but they never say what the something else is!).

Since so many things are affected by my Hashimoto’s, I can’t help but think it’s playing a factor in this.

PLEASE tell me that this is something I can train back to “normal” or cope with in some way! I NEED to run for my sanity!! Thanks Ladies!


While Stacy does not understand someone who runs, she gets what it is like to feel like you can't do something you love and trying to solve that problem.

Stacy wants to first note that they are going to assume that all of the things like sleep management, sunlight, and grounding are all being incorporated as well.

While these pieces are a lot to put on your to-do list, these are important aspects in hormone health.

The thing that Sarah wants to talk about is that when she sees these symptoms, the first thing she thinks about is postpartum thyroiditis.


Thyroid Health & Pregnancy

On this episode, Sarah is going to share information on how the thyroid changes throughout pregnancy and upon delivery. They will also discuss what postpartum thyroiditis is and who is at risk for it.

Postpartum thyroiditis is a relatively common condition but is rarely diagnosed. However, the sooner you get the diagnosis and start working on the treatment, the more effective that treatment can be.

Sarah does recommend that Heather go to a healthcare provider and talk about these symptoms. She also suggests that Heather brings her thyroid test results with her.

The number one thing to do is to go get your thyroid checked.

Excess thyroid hormone causes heart palpitations and exercise intolerance. This is due to an increase in heart rate and fatigue.

The normal increase in heart rate during exercise is exaggerated with thyroid hormones, which is what Heather is describing.

Rapid heart rate is the most common sign of hyperthyroidism.

During pregnancy, the shift in the immune system puts some autoimmune conditions into remission. For some autoimmune diseases, pregnancy can make them flair. (17:20)

The immune system is changing modes but isn't in remission. The thyroid also changes as a result of pregnancy hormones, which is normal.

Having sufficient thyroid hormones is really important for supporting a healthy pregnancy and a healthy baby.

During the first eleven weeks of pregnancy, it is mostly maternal thyroid hormones that are driving development.

At around eleven weeks, the fetus's thyroid starts to take over producing thyroid hormones.

The two hormones that are driving the change in thyroid function are HCG and estrogen.

HCG accelerates thyroid hormone production. It is increasing the production of thyroid hormone, which results in a slight decrease in thyroid-stimulating hormone. This impacts the feedback loop.

Levels typically return to normal within the second trimester.

Estrogen increases the amount of thyroid hormone-binding proteins.

So we have this stimulation of the thyroid to produce more thyroid hormone, which lowers TSH.

Then we have this increase in thyroid hormone-binding protein, which binds up some of the excess thyroid hormones. This essentially levels out its activities so that levels are not swinging up and down.

If a woman has preexisting Hashimoto thyroiditis you can end up suppressing thyroid hormone, especially in the first trimester.

It is very common for somebody with preexisting Hashimoto thyroiditis to require higher thyroid hormone replacement throughout pregnancy.

Physicians who specialize in this would typically recommend dialing in thyroid hormone replacement doses prior to a woman becoming pregnant.

They would then recommend checking thyroid function as soon as pregnancy is detected. (23:19)

Typically thyroid function would be very closely monitored throughout pregnancy in somebody who goes into pregnancy knowing they have Hashimoto thyroiditis.

They would then get their levels checked every six to eight weeks, but even up to every four weeks depending on how much they are having to adjust the hormone.

Then as soon as the baby is born, the mother would be directed to go right back to her prepregnancy level does of the thyroid hormone she is on.

This is the standard procedure that is done to avoid postpartum thyroiditis that is medication caused.

If somebody has Hashimoto thyroiditis pre-existing and they don't have endocrinologist that is monitoring them throughout pregnancy it can be dangerous.

The combination of not having enough thyroid hormone throughout pregnancy can increase the risk of adverse pregnancy outcomes.

There is also this need to adjust immediately upon birth to avoid going hyper.


Medication & Supplements

It is also worth noting that the iron and calcium in prenatal vitamins inhibit the absorption of thyroid hormone in the gastrointestinal tract.

It is standard operating procedure if you are on hormone replacement to take it at least an hour before even drinking coffee.

Sarah's super pro-tip when it comes to thyroid replacement medication is to put one in a pill bottle next to your bed. This prevents you from taking more than one.

Any mineral supplements shouldn't be taken within four hours of a thyroid hormone dose.

If you are pregnant and taking a prenatal vitamin, Sarah recommends taking that vitamin in the afternoon to separate it from the thyroid hormone.


Postpartum Thyroiditis

Postpartum thyroiditis happens in this one situation of women with preexisting Hashimoto thyroiditis, but it also happens in women who had no idea they had thyroid issues before pregnancy. (28:32)

Studies have shown that women who develop postpartum thyroiditis typically have high concentrations of antithyroid antibodies early in pregnancy.

Antibodies are measurable upon childbirth.

Generally, measurable antibodies would be diagnostic for Hashimoto thyroiditis.

However, in a fairly large percentage of women postpartum thyroiditis might need some treatment to control thyroid hormone levels for a chunk of time. Then the thyroid will sort of return to normal.

What this can mean though is an even higher risk of subsequent postpartum thyroiditis in a subsequent pregnancy. Also, the subsequent risk of developing Hashimoto thyroiditis or a more chronic form of hyperthyroidism.

We know that this condition is sensitive to hormonal shifts. So the most common times to develop Hashimoto thyroiditis is puberty, pregnancy, and menopause.

If you have had postpartum thyroiditis and your thyroid has returned to normal afterward, make sure that you are on guard on what your thyroid is doing as you approach perimenopause.

Postpartum thyroiditis is this very acute level of inflammation but does seem to be driven by autoimmune processes that are enhanced because of the hormonal environment after childbirth.

You get two phases of postpartum thyroiditis.

First, you get a hyper phase, which is what Heather is describing in her question. This means the thyroid is too high. This is a get thee to a doctor time.

The symptoms include things like anxiety, panic attacks, irritability, heart palpitations and rapid heartbeat, unexplained weight loss, increase sensitivity to heat, fatigue, shaking like a tremor, and insomnia.

Typically in postpartum thyroiditis, the hyperthyroid phase lasts one to four months after delivery.

Although, not all women will have a hyperthyroid phase. Some will jump straight into a hypothyroid phase. (32:49)

This is a pendulum swing in the other direction, into an underactive thyroid, which is hypothyroidism.

The classic symptoms include crippling fatigue, increased sensitivity to cold, constipation, unexplained weight gain, dry skin, and typically depression.

The hypo phase of postpartum thyroiditis begins as the hyper starts to go away, which can be anywhere from a few days after birth to a few weeks after birth.

The swing into hypo can last six months up to a year, even a year and a half at most. Some women will never recover from the hypo phase.

While it is less common, some women will have just the hyperthyroid and not actually experience the reactive hypo-phase.

Sarah covered the risk factors and noted that it is really important to be testing thyroid.


Treatment & Care

Graves disease is life-threatening. Hashimoto thyroiditis typically is not, although it is incredibly impactful on the quality of life.

It is really important to dial in diet and lifestyle, but also maintain an openness to conventional medical treatment. Be willing to accept when conventional medical treatment is the best course of action.

Sarah really wants to remind listeners that medication is not a failure.

Stacy reiterated this to listeners. No matter how hard you AIP it, you may still need medical intervention. This is ok, and this is why modern medicine exists.

This is also not an excuse to do the hard work of diet and lifestyle.

The healthiest approach is to prioritize the diet and lifestyle changes that are going to support lifelong health while using conventional medicine judiciously and in an informed way.

It is a matter of using all the tools available to us. (41:29)

We are talking about close medical supervision and frequent thyroid testing, which is why EverlyWell's affordable testing may be a great option for anyone going through this.

It is important to know that needing this close medical supervision and needing to take medication, doesn't make you a failure. It also does not get you off the hook and mean that it is ok to go eat all the fast food.


Closing Thoughts

Stacy thanked Sarah for all of her in-depth science and dose of reality.

What has been interesting for Stacy on her health journey is that she has different thyroid symptoms from Sarah. She technically has thyroid disease, but she doesn't need medication.

Stacy knows that she needs to retest, which is what she plans to do through EverlyWell.

There is a variety of different health conditions, and they impact you differently at different phases in life. (44:54)

The path to healing and health is not linear.

Stacy thanked Sarah for reminding her to check on her health from a numbers perspective.

If you need to do some self-checking, you can do that through EverlyWell and get 15% off your order with the code 'ThePaleoView'.

No matter how nervous you might be about the results, it doesn't actually change what your health condition is by avoiding testing for it.

The testing gives you actionable information.

Thank you again for tuning into this week's episode!

Stacy thanked Sarah for doing all the research she did while jet-lagged, and that we are happy to hear that her Dad is on the path to recovery.

Sarah and Stacy will be back again next week!

Welcome back Paleo View listeners! (0:41)

It has been a week for Sarah, but just a few days since Stacy and Sarah last recorded, as they recorded episode 369two days ago.

Sarah thanked Stacy for pre-recording with her.

While she hasn't talked about this much on social media, Sarah wanted to give this special group of listeners a unique window into her life.

Sarah wanted to share what has been going on in her life. She has been in crisis mode, working through the steps of what she needs to get done.

The next step is going to require that she travel all next week. She knew she wouldn't be able to record a full topic show.

By the time this show goes live, it will have been almost two weeks since Sarah's father had a massive heart attack. He was on a city bus at the time that it happened, going into full cardiac arrest.

Sarah's Dad was dead for three to four minutes, and there happened to be someone on the bus who really knew CPR. They were able to do CPR effectively until paramedics arrived.

Once the paramedics arrived, it took two shocks to get his heart beating again. They were then able to transfer him and treat him at the hospital. Sarah's Dad will have a long recovery ahead of him, but he seems to be on the road to recovery.

One of Sarah's big takeaways from this all was that her Dad didn't have emergency contact information attached to his identification or his file.

The hospital didn't know who to call. Sarah's Dad was in the hospital for two days before Sarah and her family knew about what happened.

Sarah was still waiting to receive her passport from her change in citizenship and hasn't been able to be with her family during this time.

However, Sarah has been so impressed with how her brothers rose to the occasion. Once her passport did arrive, Sarah looked to her brothers to tell her how to jump in and help.

The family doesn't yet know the endpoint of her Dad's recovery. If he will be able to live independently or if he is going to need someone to come into his apartment.

There is no heart disease in Sarah's family that she knew about. This situation felt very out of the blue. Sarah shared more about how she is processing this event. In addition, Sarah shared more about how this is changing her habits around diet and lifestyle.

Sarah is walking more, making sure that she is going to bed early, eating more vegetables, and eating sardines for breakfast daily. (11:50)

Soon Sarah will be heading home to help out as much as she can. The plan is to take this all one step at a time.

Stacy shared her love for Sarah and her family during this time.

When Matt was in a terrible car accident, Stacy learned the importance of having emergency contact information on hand. Stacy thanked Sarah for pointing this out.

Sarah has found many life lessons throughout this whole experience.

Stacy asked Sarah to share more about the healing and recovery foods she mentioned earlier in the show. (17:36)

Sarah is trying to make soups and stews that will be easy for her Dad to reheat. She is also focusing on the nutrients that will help with his healing process.

A really big thing for heart health is omega-3 fats and monounsaturated fats. One of the things that Sarah will be doing is making sure he has high-quality olive oil to cook with.

When taking fish oil, capsules are better. Capsule form protects from oxidation. Sarah particularly looks for tuna oil as an ingredient, as it is high in DHA.

Sarah will also put her Dad on Just Thrive probiotic.

In addition, Sarah will make sure she is helping to increase her Dad's vegetable intake. At home, Sarah uses pumpkin or overly cooked cauliflower, to then blend and thicken the stew. This is a great way to hide extra vegetables and increase vegetable intake.

Stacy loves this method of stew prep as well. She personally loves to use roasted butternut squash as her thickener.

Before leaving to be with her Dad, Sarah is also working to fill her own freezer with nutrient-dense meals for her husband and daughters.

Sarah will be also checking her Dad's snack supply once she arrives at his house. She will make sure that he has unsalted nuts around, like pecans, walnuts, macadamia nuts, and cashews. To make it even easier for him, she will likely measure out the portions and prepare individual serving sizes for her Dad to grab.

In addition, Sarah plans to talk to her Dad's doctor about adding a CoQ10 supplement.

Sarah will also be looking at her Dad's potassium intake and adding in potassium-rich fruits and vegetables.

When you are sick and recovering from something you don't want to eat something that feels foreign. (27:13)

Sarah has had other friends in her life, where she has seen how challenging it is when you are recovering from something to modify your diet at the same time. If her Dad doesn't like something he simply won't eat it. So Sarah needs to find a way to get the nutrient-dense foods into him while he is recovering and not feeling well.

Eventually, Sarah will also look to get her Dad's vitamin D levels tested.

B vitamins, all of the antioxidant vitamins and all of the electrolyte minerals are really important when it comes to heart health. As long as you are eating good vegetables, you will be meeting these needs. However, since Sarah lives so far away, she isn't sure what her Dad is eating on a regular basis.

Sarah also plans to get her Dad walking on a regular basis, but it will be a slow start as his heart heals.

If any of The Paleo View listeners have cardiovascular disease risk factors and you are interested in digging into it a little bit more, Sarah recommends that you get enough sleep every night. Sleeping less than six hours a night doubles your risk of stroke and heart attack. Stress and activity are also very important. (30:39)

The only other key thing that Sarah recommends, is getting genetic testing for APOE. If cardiovascular disease runs in your family, getting tested for APOE is a really good thing. Sarah personally likes MaxGen Labs for genetic testing. However, even a functional medicine doctor can add it to a blood test and just check for your gene variance of that one gene.

Stacy thanked Sarah for taking the time to both tell listeners what is happening and to share this helpful information. If you have further questions on this topic, please feel free to pass those questions on. They may be incorporated into future shows or blog posts.

Thank you for tuning in and being here! Stacy and Sarah will be back next week! (35:17)

  • (0:40) Welcome

    • Hey listeners - welcome back to The Paleo View!
    • Stacy and Sarah geeked out over the math specialties of this episode number 369
    • Sarah wished Stacy a Happy Birthday!
      • Stacy talked about what happens when you get older and what she is noticing
      • Today on the show, inspired by Stacy's own aging journey, the hosts are going to talk about aging as a woman
        • Specifically perimenopause and menopause

          • As we get older what happens from a physical perspective
          • What can we do about it from a lifestyle perspective
    • Stacy wants to remind people before they dive into this topic that the great think about heading into perimenopause and aging is that you are still alive
      • Stacy feels like this is lost on a lot of people
      • Feeling gratitude to be alive and to focus on finding your best health
    • Sarah gave a shoutout to this week's episode sponsor, EverlyWell
      • Stacy and Sarah love this at-home lab testing company that offers a variety of tests, ranging from Food Sensitivity to Metabolism, to a Thyroid Test, Vitamin D to a comprehensive Women’s Health Panel
      • The Paleo View listeners can use the link below to get 15% off their order with code ‘ThePaleoView’
  • (5:42) The Science

    • Often the term menopause is used as this catchall

      • It actually means the end of the change of life

        • The time in a woman's life when she can no longer reproduce
        • It is marked by at least a year without a period
    • Perimenopause refers to that period of time that is the transition between pre-menopausal (reproductive years) and menopause (no longer reproducing)
      • For most women, the transition will start sometime in their 40's, usually late 40's
      • Some will start to notice some changes in their mid 30's
      • It can be almost instant to more than a decade in time
        • Between 4 to 10 years is average
      • What is happening during this period of time is that estrogen levels are starting to drop
        • As estrogen drops, it can drop rapidly, and that hormone shift can cause a lot of the symptoms
        • Throughout perimenopause, estrogen can cycle in a weird way
          • It stops being the regular cycle that we have during our menstruation cycles
          • It starts being more unpredictable
          • This is what drives all the symptoms
      • Symptoms:
        • Hot flashes
        • Sleep problems
        • Vaginal dryness
        • Irregular periods
        • Worse PMS
        • Breast tenderness
        • Weight gain that isn't linked to diet and lifestyle
        • Changes to your hair
        • More rapid heartbeat
          • Cardiovascular disease risk factors will often increase
        • Headaches
        • Loss of libido
        • Cognitive challenges
        • Challenges conceiving
        • Muscle aches
        • Urinary tract infections
        • Night sweats
        • Fatigue
        • Dry skin
        • Overactive bladder or urinary incontinence
        • Hyperthyroidism
        • Chronic disease risk implications
    • Stacy is feeling a bit of anxiety over all of the symptoms Sarah mentioned
      • Stacy's mom hasn't gone through perimenopause yet and it is interesting to Stacy how much variability there is in one person's experience to the next and the role that genetics play
    • Sarah and Stacy discussed if/how pregnancies impact one's menopause timeline
    • When looking at this list of symptoms, Sarah wants to emphasize that some of these can be driven by stress levels and/or early perimenopause
      • If you have a hormonal imbalance this is a good situation to work with a functional or integrative medicine specialist and do some hormone balancing

        • These symptoms can be alleviated by balancing hormones
        • Hormone balancing protocols are typically very personalized and involve tweaking hormonal doses to get them into the normal range
      • The way to test is to look at the female hormones specifically
        • EverlyWelldoes offer a very comprehensive Women's Health panel
        • Sarah's non-medical recommendation would be to combine this with a cholesterol and lipids test
          • Also measuring Vitamin D levels would be helpful to measure at this point
        • Stacy recommends going back and listening to the Functional M.D. podcast episodeif you are wanting to figure out how to find someone who can help you with some of these things
          • Taking these tests yourself and looking at the information is going to be the best way to not just hear someone tell you that your only option is to get old and medicate
          • Educate yourself with these tests and know where your inflammation markers are so that you are educated when you talk to a medical professional
        • Sarah notes that the conventional medical model is symptom alleviation with prescription medications
          • There are situations where women are on 8 to 10 different medications that are each for an individual symptom of menopause
          • There are some really interesting studies that look at diet and lifestyle interventions and show that they are far more effective
          • Given the link between nutrition and lifestyle and how easy this biological transition/tradition is that we go through, Sarah thinks that it is a real lost opportunity to educate people in terms of a healthy diet and lifestyle
            • There have been studies looking at other cultures and their traditional diets

              • These studies have shown that women in those cultures have a far lower rate of reporting symptoms of perimenopause

                • Ex: Only 10% of women in China, 17% of women in Singapore, and 22% of women in Japan report hot flashes as part of perimenopause
                • In contrast, in the US, 75% of women over the age of 50 report having hot flashes
              • It does look like these diets are much higher in vegetables, fiber, lower in fat content
              • There is a collection of research showing that the typical Western diet (high fat, low fiber, a lot of animal foods) can cause high estrogen levels in women
                • Which means as these women enter perimenopause they are going to experience a more dramatic drop
              • There have been studies now looking at vegetable and fruit consumption and menopausal symptoms
                • These studies show that the higher vegetable and fruit consumption is, the fewer symptoms of menopause are experienced
                • It's inversely correlated with sugars and fats
              • There is a fair amount of evidence showing that fiber is really important
                • Fiber helps to bind with excess hormones and eliminate them
                • So it is a very important element to hormone regulation
  • (36:20) The Role That Diet & Lifestyle Plays

    • There is this new paradigm for understanding the symptoms of menopause where scientists are starting to make a case for them being largely driven by oxidative stress

      • Oxidative stress translates to inflammation, but it means that there are a lot of oxygen radicals in the body

        • Oxygen radicals in the body are not just driving inflammation, but they are also impacting cellular health

          • They are impacting DNA
        • Oxygen radicals are the things that cause aging
      • One of the reasons why cruciferous vegetables are thought to be so beneficial for menopausal symptoms is because they are particularly high in antioxidants
    • The data shows that deficiency in these nutrients can magnify menopausal symptoms, it is really mixed as to whether or not supplementation can help
      • It emphasizes the importance of a healthy diet going into perimenopause and maintained throughout

        • Vitamin E
        • Vitamin C
        • Vitamin B12
        • Vitamin D
        • Vitamin B6
        • Vitamin A
      • Sarah still thinks food sources are the best sources
      • Menopause increases the likelihood of B12 deficiency
        • This likely drives a lot of the insomnia symptoms that are experienced in menopause
      • A diet that includes organ meat, seafood and lots of plants would be the best way to structure a diet to meet these nutrient requirements that mitigate the effects of low estrogen
        • Stacy's favorite way to get the nutrients from organ meat is through liver pills
    • To be completely upfront with the podcast listeners, Sarah noted that neither her nor Stacy are perfect
      • They cycle in terms of what a good job they are doing in terms of diet and lifestyle
      • They have both been really open about this on the show
      • This is a lifestyle that does require a renewed commitment from time to time, as it is important
      • Be able to recommit without guilt or blame
      • Periodically we all need a reset
      • One of the reasons why Sarah blogs and podcasts is to keep her accountable
      • Perfection is an unachievable goal
      • Stacy reminds people that the aging process happens the moment we are born
        • When we can accept this process we can more easily learn how to manage the process
    • Lifestyle is also really important for menopausal symptoms, especially exercise
      • There is certainly a stress link and there are many recommendations in the mainstream health resources available about how to reduce stress

        • Meditation
      • In addition to mindfulness practices, getting enough sleep is another powerful tool when managing stress
        • With sleep disturbance as a part of menopause, the way to get enough sleep is to exercise

          • There have been a variety of studies that tackle this from two ways

            • One: they look at women, their symptoms and how much they exercise

              • Basically moderate physical activity has less than half the amount of psychological and physical symptoms of menopause than those who don't exercise much
              • High levels of physical activity is not beneficial to menopausal symptoms
              • An hour(ish) a day of low to moderately intense activity is what to shoot for here
          • There is a consistent reduction in symptoms with activity over time
            • One study did 50 minutes of unsupervised aerobic training, four times per week

              • They saw a 2% improvement in hot flashes per week, continuously over the 6-month length of this trial
          • Plus there are a lot of other benefits that come with consistent exercise
            • Improve bone mineral density
            • Maintain muscle strength
            • Improve sleep quality
            • Improve mood
            • Reduce anxiety and depression
            • Reduce irritability 
            • Reduce hot flashes
    • If we take all of this, we are boiling it down to: be active and eat a lot of vegetables
      • These are the two recommendations that have the strongest support in the medical literature
      • Make sure cruciferous vegetables make it on the plate every day
    • If you feel like you are doing all the diet and lifestyle things, but the symptoms are still really impacting your quality of life, there is definitely a time and a place for hormone replacement therapy for menopausal symptoms
      • Sarah recommends workings with a Functional Integrative Medical Practitioner who has training in hormone balancing and who is going to do testing and be up to date on the literature
    • Stacy gets a lot of questions around skincare for aging skin, specifically as women enter their 30's
      • This is when women's collagen and moisture in their skin goes down
      • The number one thing to keep your skin from aging is hydration and moisturization 
        • Also preventing oxidative stress with SPF and things like that
      • Damage to our skin is caused by environmental factors, as well and genetics and all the hormones Stacy and Sarah have talked about on this show
        • So you want to make sure you are addressing it from both angles if you want to reduce the signs of aging
      • Hydroxy acids or fruit acids are a powerful tool
        • These are widely studied as far as antiaging goes
        • You can often find them listed as AHA or BHA
        • This is essentially going to slough off the skin through exfoliation
          • It should cause a reduction in acne, scars, and pigmentation
      • Other ingredients that are helpful: 
        • Hyaluronic acid

          • Using a moisturizer with hyaluronic acid in it is going to help maintain the moisture in your skin
        • Collagen
          • Stacy takes it as a supplement every day, also drinks bone broth, and eats cuts of meat that is rich in collagen
          • You can increase topically your use of Vitamin C which helps synthesize collagen
      • Most of the antiaging skincare products out there targeted to women's skin that is aging contain hormone-disrupting ingredients purposefully
      • The two things that Stacy has found the most results from are:
        • Dermabrasion 

          • Stacy has a tutorial on this process on her Instagram stories
          • Once you remove that top layer of skin, you are going to want to nourish that fresh skin
          • Stacy uses BeautyCounter's Overnight Resurfacing Peel
            • This product is free through the month of September 
            • You can learn more here
      • Sarah uses a mix of brands that work for her skin
        • However, Sarah did use the Resurfacing Peel that Stacy shared with her and was very impressed with the results
      • Stacy shared on how BeautyCounter tests their products for safety
  • (1:15:27) Closing Thoughts

    • EverylyWell offers a lot of really great testing kits for accessing that health piece

      • Including addressing hormone imbalances, thyroid health, cardiovascular disease risk factors, cholesterol, vitamin D levels, and all the other things that are really important to women's health
      • You can visit this linkto get 15% off your order with the ‘ThePaleoView’
    • Stacy knows that this was a topic that has been highly requested by listeners, and she hopes everyone enjoyed it
    • Stacy thanked Sarah for all the time she put into the research required for this show
    • If you have follow up questions, Stacy and Sarah welcome them
    • Please remember that neither Stacy nor Sarah are medical professionals and they cannot give listeners specific advice for your particular health issue
      • However, they are happy to address things from an overall perspective
    • Use the comment forms on either Stacy or Sarah's site to submit questions
    • Stacy and Sarah love to hear from listeners on social media
      • Please keep tagging Stacy and Sarah when you share
    • If you learned something and enjoyed the show, please be sure to share it with someone who you think could also learn from this episode
    • Thanks for listening! 
  • (0:40) Welcome

    • Welcome back to the Paleo View listeners!

      • Episode 368!
      • Not 369, even though episode 368 was already recorded, but with a tech glitch
      • Stacy and Sarah hope you enjoy the benefit of them already practicing this show one time through
    • Special thank you to this week's sponsor, Joovv
      • A speaker reached out with a question about his Joovv:

        • Lorenzo has the Quad Joovvand there is a little bit of a gap between where his Joovvpieces connect. Should he stand still or move side to side for max benefits?

          • Sarah shared details on the design of the Quad Joovvand the way it is designed to be full-body
          • Sarah has this model as well and what she does is move a little left to right
          • Ideally, you should be standing about one to two inches away
          • Sarah does 10 minutes facing her Joovvand 10 minutes with her back to it
          • Stacy does a little bit longer with her back to the Joovvas she finds that it helps with her injury and joint pain
      • Stacy and Sarah both love their Joovvsand you can learn all about them by visiting this link:
      • Sarah shared information on a recent study that Joovvshared on how it impacts sleep hygiene
        • Sarah uses her Joovvbefore bed for these reasons, and it is a natural part of her evening routine
        • Stacy uses her Joovv first thing in the morning
    • Stacy is looking forward to being a student on this week's podcast recording, as she knows nothing about varicose veins
    • Sarah is bringing both personal experience and science to this week's episode
  • (15:05) Q & A

    • From Christine: 

      • Before I get to my question, I want to thank you for all that you do, Sarah and Stacy.

        • I especially love your podcasts! I will admit, I am digging into your podcast archives, so don't judge me.
        • I listen to them while I log core at work, enabling me to be doubly nerdy!
        • As a fellow scientist, I appreciate your no-none-sense approach to tackling questions and information with science.
        • Even my husband (who is a chemist) loves how informative and science-based your podcasts are! Ahem, I curate select episodes for him, as it has helped him immensely in understanding AIP and profoundly improved our marriage.
        • The information and advice you provide, has empowered me to ask the right questions and find the right medical providers.
          • Prior to finding your websites and podcasts, I sought medical treatment from a primary care physician.
          • I remember the last time I saw him: I was sitting in his office, feeling horrible after eating lunch, asking him to test me for Celiac Disease.
          • I started explaining my symptoms, then he proceeded to tell me that I didn't have Celiac Disease because I didn't have diarrhea (sorry Stacy).
          • When I explained that another symptom, infertility, was an issue, as my husband and I had been trying to conceive for 4 years without any success whatsoever; he told me, "Sometimes, it's just not in God's plans."
          • I swallowed my tears and persisted. Finally, he conceded after I told him that my family has a history of Celiac Disease.
          • The two of you have made me feel empowered enough so that I moved on from that physician and found the right one for me.
          • I feel like I can intelligently speak to my provider and be my own advocate. I am so deeply grateful.
      • Now for my question... I have been making leaps and bounds on AIP over the last couple of months, after being treated for SIBO and supplementing my meals with HCl.
      • I noticed for the first time in my life that my skin became soft and my nails also soft and lustrous... but, what really surprised me the most was that my varicose veins have almost disappeared.
      • I've had them on both of my calves for about 15 years and thought that I was stuck with them for life. I was so self-conscious of them, that I rarely wore shorts or shorter dresses in public, or if I did, I wore tights or pantyhose.
      • This has led me to wonder... What causes varicose veins?
        • How are they autoimmune-related?
        • Are they specific to certain autoimmune diseases?
        • What can I do (from a diet standpoint) to keep promoting the elimination of the varicose veins?
      • I love that AIP has opened so many doors to good health for me and so many others.
      • AIP has helped me feel confident and beautiful again...something I thought never possible. I am so deeply grateful for what you have given me.
    • Stacy wants to pause to say how mad she is at that doctor and how proud she is of Christine
      • She is so proud that Christine was empowered and is giving her long-distance fist bumps
      • Sarah is sending all the high fives
      • Stacy wants to be friends with Christine
    • Varicose veins affect about 24% of Americans and there are estimates that upwards of 40% of adults will get them at some point in their lives
    • Unless you are one of these adults, you don't typically hear about varicose veins in the national health conversations
      • This is because they are considered relatively benign
    • Varicose veins are a vein where the walls have gotten weak and essentially collapsed on itself
      • Because it collapsed it gets twisty
      • It creates spots where blood can either backflow or pool
        • Veins have valves in them that stop blood from flowing backward in between heartbeats
        • Because of the weakening of the wall in the vein, the vein will kind of expand
          • This then pulls the valves apart and the valves end up failing which is how you get this backflow or blood pooling
      • Most of the time they are asymptomatic
        • They have this characteristic dark blue or purple appearance and they can bulge out
        • They don't often feel like anything - they are typically just there
        • They can be very uncomfortable
          • They can ache, feel heavy, cause muscle cramps, itchy, burning, throbbing sensation, the skin around them can be irritated
        • Overall they are benign, but there is this extreme symptom version of them
          • When people start feeling these symptoms, this is typically when they will get varicose veins treated
    • Having varicose veins does slightly increase the risk of blood clotting
      • It is called thrombophlebitis
      • These are big problems and require immediate medical intervention
      • It is a small fraction of the people with varicose veins that have this complication
    • Causes of varicose veins
      • It is not super well understood
      • There is a fair amount of research being done of them, but it is from the angle of how to treat varicose veins
      • There are little bits and pieces to the puzzle that have been figured out:
        • The weakening of the vein wall might be due to changes in collagen or elastin
        • There is some kind of chronic inflammation type part of the recipe for making varicose veins
        • There are other possible scenarios:
          • Ex: the blood clot coming first that then causes the varicose vein
          • Physical trauma can also cause them
        • There is also a familial link
          • However, no genes have been identified, but it does tend to run in families
        • Other risk factors are:
          • age
          • being a woman
          • being obese
          • sitting or standing for too long
          • having high blood pressure
          • pregnancy
            • Sarah first developed varicose veins during her pregnancy
        • It all boils down to things that are more likely to make the vein varicose
  • (26:01) The Role That Diet & Lifestyle Plays

    • There is no known link between varicose veins and autoimmune disease

      • There are a couple of autoimmune diseases that affect connective tissue, which has an increased risk of varicose veins
      • But they are not linked to autoimmune disease in general
    • It is such a high-frequency condition that it is really hard to make a link to other chronic diseases
      • The statistics show that basically varicose veins are its own vascular disease

        • Inflammation may be part of it, but there is no autoimmune component to it
    • It is interesting to Stacy that varicose veins do have an inflammation component to it, and that going to an autoimmune protocol reduces inflammation
    • Sarah noted that the autoimmune protocol is designed to help the immune system regulate itself
      • It means that it's applicable in more than just autoimmune disease conditions
    • There are some diet links, but the science is still very preliminary
      • The best understood dietary link with varicose veins is dietary fiber

        • Sarah shared more on these studies and the reasoning behind their findings
        • A squatty potty would be a great way to help with this scenario
        • However, if you are following an AIP you are already getting a high fiber intake from your vegetable consumption
      • The other nutrients linked to varicose veins:
        • Vitamin D deficiency

          • Supplementation seems to help them
        • Folate deficiency
        • Flavinoids in general
        • Plant extracts have also been tested in clinical trials and have been linked to reducing varicose veins
      • There are other nutrient deficiencies links that have been found, but it isn't known if supplementation helps in these scenarios
        • Not getting enough protein
        • Vitamin C
        • Omega 3's
        • Zinc
    • It doesn't surprise Sarah that the autoimmune protocol would benefit varicose veins
      • Or at least make them shrink
      • There are going to be times where the damage is enough that there is no amount of good diet and awesome flavinoids that are going to reverse that
      • From a stopping the progression perspective and from helping veins that still have enough structure to return to normal, that makes a lot of sense
    • The other link to the autoimmune protocol that makes sense for varicose veins is to add in exercise
      • There are a lot of studies showing that the more active you are the lower your risk for varicose veins

        • There have been a few intervention studies that have taken people with really bad varicose veins and put them on some kind of exercise regimen
        • It seems like exercises that are specifically geared at increasing leg muscle strength are particularly helpful
      • Sarah explained the explanation behind this link in greater detail
    • Stacy asked Sarah is collagen supplementation could help with varicose veins
      • Sarah tried to be as thorough as possible in her research, and couldn't find a study where collagen supplementation was actually tested
      • From an intellectual perspective, it makes sense to Sarah that supplementing with collagen and making sure that you are hitting all those other nutrients that are really important for collagen formation will help
        • However, she can't point to a scientific study that says that is the case, or how much to take
    • If varicose veins are the only thing you are dealing with, you probably don't need to go full board AIP
      • You can look at the nutrient density of your diet
      • Address things like long periods of sedentary time
    • There is very little data comparing the different types of medical interventions for varicose veins
      • They are all thought to be good for a while, but the chances of another vein blowing are really high

        • The treatments are not treating the root cause
    • Compression stockings can help varicose veins but are working to simply keep things where they are
      • Veins can still continue to varicose if you have a lot of these other risk factors
    • If your legs are starting to ache your doctors will tell you to eat more fiber
      • Sarah's translation to that is to focus on the nutrient density of your diet by increasing your vegetable intake

        • She would also suggest exercise and compression stalkings
      • This will help some people, but will not be sufficient for others
    • The medical treatments that are available right now are surgery, laser therapy, and Sclerotherapy
      • There are a lot of options for treatment
      • Sarah recommends doing your research about all the available options
    • However, Christine is a wonderful testament to the power of diet and lifestyle
      • Sarah definitely recommends trying some tweaks to diet and lifestyle and compression stalkings first
  • (47:04) Closing Thoughts

    • Stacy learned a lot today and thanked Sarah for her research
    • Thank you, Christine, for your wonderful question!
    • Please feel free to submit YOUR questions through the forms on Stacy and Sarah's websites
    • A special thank you again to this week's sponsor, Joovv
    • If you enjoyed the show and know someone who can benefit from it, leave reviews and share with those you know
      • Leave comments on social media as well to help Stacy and Sarah broaden their reach to get this information to as many people as possible who are looking for healthy living resources
  • (0:40) Welcome

    • Hey listeners - welcome back to The Paleo View!
    • Stacy is just going to jump right in because this week's topic has been something she has been ranting about for a few weeks now
      • Sarah looked into it after Stacy brought it up, and also agreed that a show needed to be done on this topic
      • When Sarah started to do the research on it she too got fired up
    • Stacy wants to give a little preface and introduction to those listeners that might not know what Sarah and Stacy are talking about or who might come to it from a different perspective
      • Stacy is going to talk on her own about her personal experience
      • Sarah has also dealt with the struggle with weight her whole life
      • The perspective that both Stacy and Sarah have, and what Stacy wants to focus on, is that Stacy's weight loss journey was never about calories in - calories out
        • There were emotional issues and there were health issues
    • Today Stacy and Sarah are going to talk about weight loss for children
      • The message that Stacy wants to share is that the foundation that we set for our kids at a young age is what is the foundation for their lifetime

        • Stacy's concern is that when we introduce something like a weight loss program for kids, not only are we dealing with all the science that Sarah is going to cover on why this can be detrimental to their health

          • But from Stacy's perspective, this was the start of an emotional relationship with food that went the opposite of a good direction
          • Stacy did end up getting therapy for bulimia and binge eating disorder as a teenager
            • She went on diets on and off so much
            • Diets were a part of her family culture
              • Stacy doesn't feel like they knew better back then
              • People encouraged family members to go on diets because they were thinking about their health
              • Now there is a much better understanding of health at any size, and there is more to health than just your weight
      • There is an insane amount of diet culture pervasiveness
        • To add to this blew Stacy's mind

          • We now know that asking children to diet creates this yo-yo roller coaster for them
          • It strips away the confidence or perceived support that they might have from focusing on positive healthy activities vs. counting calories
        • When this weight loss program for kids came out, Stacy got so angry
          • She wanted to hug every single one of these children and tell them that they are wonderful just as they are
          • We need emotional support for these kids and teaching them good habits
            • Focusing on and praising the things that are really good in their life
            • And doing it with them
      • Stacy shared on her experience with being obese and why she is so passionate about this topic
      • Sarah noted that kids are more emotionally vulnerable
        • Teaching our kids that they are doing something wrong around the culture of weight significantly impacts their emotional health
      • Sarah was a robust kid, but she wasn't overweight until her early teens
        • It became a self-fulfilling prophecy
        • There were many external influences that led to Sarah developing a binge eating disorder and eventually reaching a morbidly obese weight
          • In part, because she had an underlying health issue that was driving her weight gain and this went undiagnosed for something like 30 years
          • It felt to Sarah like nothing worked and it didn't matter what she did
            • The things that Sarah was doing were the popular diets at the time
          • As Sarah digs into the data, she thinks that this weight loss program is not just everything wrong in supporting healthy habits in kids
            • But it goes so much beyond that because we have this culture now where 91% of American woman have dissatisfaction with their bodies
            • This is what we are doing to ourselves, and then teaching our kids
              • We are teaching them that there is something wrong with them and that they have to fix themselves
          • Diets themselves can be physiologically harmful
            • It is not just the psychological effects
          • Sarah thinks that this is a symptom of a cultural phenomenon that is corrosive
            • We put these underweight body types on this pedestal of being the height of beauty
            • When what is healthy is actually heavier than this
            • We then shame everybody else
            • We shame people if they are not underweight
          • This was eyeopening to make Sarah think about how she talks to herself and how she treats herself
    • Sarah wants to emphasize that the fixation in our community on weight instead of health is wrong
      • Sarah wants every one of The Paleo View listeners to look at your actions and self-talk and really think about it as objectively as you can
      • How can we together as a community move forward to address every aspect of this
      • What are we teaching our children about how to navigate healthy choices in life based on how we talk to ourselves
    • Stacy encourages you, the next time you talk to yourself - if you were saying that to your child, mother, or best friend would you say it the same way that you talk to yourself?
      • You can both accept yourself and love yourself and respect yourself as you are today
      • AND make healthier habits and changes
        • However, the guilt and shame associated with the negative self-talk and mindset is so pervasive that it causes self-destructive habits when you don't achieve perfection
        • It begets this negative cycle telling yourself that you are a worse person when you don't achieve an appearance
      • Stacy has challenged herself over the last year to no longer acknowledge people's bodies
        • If she comments on appearance, she makes it about how happy someone looks or how healthy they look

          • Words that don't associate with emptiness
        • This has been a habit she has had to shape
    • As Stacy and Sarah jump into the rest of the show, Stacy encourages you to think positively about the changes you can make in the future and feel good about it
      • This is the kind of thought process that will help you achieve your goal
      • If you get caught up in reflecting back and thinking negatively, you will get sucked up in a black hole
  • (19:50) The Research on Diets Longterm Effects

    • Sarah wants to go through some data to reinforce the importance of taking some time and revisiting these periods of self-reflection when it comes to how each one of us in contributing to diet culture
    • It has been known in the medical literature for about 20 years that going on a diet as an adolescent dramatically increases the risk of developing an eating disorder
      • This was all launched by this well-done study from 1999 where they looked at 2,000 teenagers and did a whole pile of medical analysis

        • They looked at:

          • Lifestyle factors
          • Surveys to look at mental health
          • Starting weight
          • Activity levels
          • Gender
        • They discovered that the single biggest predictor of an eating disorder (looking at just anorexia and bulimia):
          • In the kids who were on a severe diet, they were 18x more likely to develop an eating disorder
          • In the kids who were on a moderate diet, they were 5x more likely to develop an eating disorder
        • Things that didn't affect the chances of developing an eating disorder:
          • How active the kids were
          • What their starting BMI was
    • There have been a variety of follow up studies that have confirmed these results
      • They have added binge eating disorder and obesity
    • There was a 2016 studypublished in the American Academy of Pediatrics that was like a review paper showing that dieting (defined as caloric restriction with the goal of weight loss) was not only a risk factor for developing eating disorders but it doubled the risk of obesity
      • Often the diets that these kids and teens are going on are not nutrient-dense
      • It is not just calorically restricting, it is nutrient restricting
        • Even on some of the more forward-thinking diet plans that have unlimited vegetables, are not actually teaching people how to eat enough nutrients
    • We are seeing that the psychological damage is almost certainly from that cycle of body shame, the stigma that is associated with it, and the anxiety, stress, and depression
    • Sarah now talks a lot about healthy weight loss in her workshop and educational resources
      • She has an online course that is very much about health goal setting and addressing habits to normalize weight in a healthy way
      • It ditches this mentality of losing a certain amount of weight for a life event
    • One of the reasons that weight-loss maintenance is so challenging (especially the higher the caloric restriction), your hunger hormones increase
      • Your metabolism decreases, and your hunger increases
      • Most of these diets are not rich enough in protein to maintain lean muscle mass
      • It is essentially a recipe for weight gain
      • Unless you approach this in the right way, which is:
        • Healthy habit development

          • Eat more vegetables
          • Get more sleep
          • Live an active lifestyle
          • Manage your stress
          • Make sure you are eating enough protein
        • These habits will allow you to normalize weight and keep it off
        • It is very much about healthy choices and not necessarily a particular goal
    • What is happening in these kids the diets that they are going on is setting them up to fail and to yo-yo
      • They are very goal-driven with an emphasis on, 'the faster the better'
      • They are not focused on a nutrient-rich approach
      • Losing weight is inflammatory and increases oxidative stress
    • Weight loss is a process that requires an education
      • The problem with these weight loss centers is that they said you up to yo-yo

        • There is this assumption that if you don't lose weight fast enough you won't stick to it
        • But if your approach is not making you healthier, it is hard to stick to
        • This process magnifies shame
          • You end up in both a physiological and psychological cycle

            • The physiological cycle is changing body composition in a way that is increasing the risk of health problems with every cycle
            • The psychological cycle is a cycle of shame and failure and reward
              • It magnifies the shame when you cannot stick to this thing that you physiologically set yourself up to not be able to follow
    • Sarah feels strongly about not distilling diet or lifestyle choices to yes's and no's - the things to do and the things to not do
      • Not to put this stigma on no foods
      • And to not express things so simplistically that you cannot understand the why behind the choice
    • Kids do not understand things like muscle weighing more than fat or how hormones and metabolism play into things
      • So think about the impact to a child who is being publically weighed
      • When we introduce these ideas to kids they see it more simplistically
    • The more that we can learn the lingo, the science and the information (the why and the how), so that we can help our children understand it, the more we can combat diet culture within our households and communities
    • Nutrient deficiencies are one of the strongest links to chronic disease risks
      • It turns out when you eat a nutrient-rich diet it supports the reduced risk of disease, which is really the thing that matters

        • Not if you fit into those jeans or look good in a bikini
        • We have trained ourselves to not look for the visual cues of health
          • Thick, shiny hair
          • Glowing skin
          • A giant smile
          • Energy
          • Muscle
    • Sarah says that body composition, as opposed to your weight on the scale, is very important
      • It is far more important how much muscle we have, as opposed to fat
    • This paper that looked at diet and risk for eating disorders showed that exercise did not increase the risk of eating disorders
      • So just being active is a super healthy lifestyle choice that improves our health in a number of ways
      • If we can separate activity away from weight loss goals and diet mentality, it is a super healthy thing to do
    • Metrics of health, we can also look at inflammatory markers in the blood, lipid panels, mood, energy levels
      • These are far more important things for us to evaluate both in ourselves and in our kids

        • Are our kids getting enough sleep?
        • Are they active?
        • Do they have energy throughout the day?
    • People can be underweight, overweight, and average weight and have tons of health issues
  • (42:28) The Impact Beyond the Scale

    • For Stacy, she never saw anybody who looked like her in her early life

      • Healthy at any size wasn't an actual thing
      • It didn't make her feel good to not see anyone who looked like her in pop culture
        • Which only further enforced this idea that she needed to be thin to fit the ideal

          • Thin was healthy and that was the marker of health Stacy was taught to work towards
    • Now there is so much more information than there use to be
      • Stacy has such hope that the next generation will have this information and will go back to the way that their grandparents lived

        • Not just eating whole, nutrient-dense, low-inflammatory foods, but also using less plastic and all the other things that go into health
      • If where we are going is putting children on weight loss programs and not talking about the things that really matter and helping them understand the emotional and physical impacts of nutrient and caloric restriction, then we are doomed
      • Stacy says we have to be change agents
    • One of the things that Sarah finds really interesting is what it is doing to our epigenetics to go on these weight loss programs
      • There is data from the last 10-15 years showing that under-nutrition is linked to a dramatic list of negative health consequences that transcends generations

        • One of the most interesting studies is the Dutch health study that looked at times of famine and how those impacted the health of the people depending on how they were and the health of their children, and now their grandchildren

          • The kids who were the same age as those who these weight loss programs are targeting (8 to 17) were a particularly sensitive group

            • Women who were between 10 and 17 at the start of the famine had later in their life a 38% increased risk of coronary heart disease
            • It does damage our body to have severe caloric restriction
              • It increases our risk of some cancer, type-2 diabetes, obesity, immune suppression, mental health disorders, and more
            • The children of these women are shorter
            • The study is now showing the increased rate of diseases through turning on these adaptations genes so your body is trying to survive a time of famine and this is turning some genes off and some genes on
              • And they are seeing that this is inherited
      • We need to fix this for our children's generation
        • We can actually point to genetic changes as a result of dieting that can then be passed on to their children that is then going to increase their risk of chronic disease

          • This is the opposite of health
    • While Sarah was talking, Stacy had a moment of guilt thinking about her history, but then she snapped herself out of it and reminded herself to not go into backward thinking
      • She is instead thinking about all the things that she is doing now to benefit her boys so that they can have a better future
  • (51:25) Closing Thoughts

    • What are the positive things we can do to not just address how we talk to ourselves, but really help our kids develop those healthy habits that will support a healthy weight (whatever that is for them) and lifelong health?

      • The first one that Stacy wants to mention is that we have to live and lead by example

        • And genuinely believe it
        • Think about your wording and mentality around habits
          • Build fun into healthy habits
          • Bring your kids into the kitchen to cook with you
      • Sarah points out the importance of gathering for family meals
        • This bonding translates to other healthy habits
      • Focus on higher vegetable consumption
      • Creating healthy sleep habits
      • Outside play
    • When we focus on these things as the healthy habits that we work on as a family, we are setting the stage for naturally achieving a healthy weight
      • We are also naturally achieving health
    • Remember, healthy and thin does not mean the same thing
      • These two things can go together, but they don't always
      • If you are going to choose one or the other, Sarah highly recommends choosing healthy
    • Stacy thinks this will provide structure for an easy way to talk to children about healthy and habits
      • Stacy shared on how Matt and Stacy worked together to collaboratively work on their healthy habits and their health groove

        • She shared insight into how we approach conversations and our word choices can make a huge difference
    • Sarah shared on how her mental health plays a role on her physical health
      • She has to be really mindful about self-destructive, self-talk

        • Also to let go of judgment and guilt
    • Stacy challenges herself to only focus on the things she really likes about herself to shift that negative mindset
      • Every time she thinks negatively about herself, she then comes up with two things she likes about herself
      • This was an activity they did with the kids while traveling this summer as well
    • We all deserve to focus on the good things and to be complimented and to compliment others
      • The more we do it to others, the more natural it will be to do it to yourself
    • Sarah wants to reiterate that there is no part of this conversation that is helped by blame, guilt, or remorse
      • This is about moving forward and embracing these health journies as a family-focused on healthy habits and the bonding that comes out of these experiences
    • Stacy sent all her love to the audience
      • Please share this episode with your community and those who you think would benefit from this information
      • Please also leave a review, which helps others see this show in their podcast feeds
      • Please also share it on your social media channels to help get this information to others
    • Thank you so much for your support!
      • Help others find these shows in a way that can help heal themselves and potentially heal their families
      • Stacy would love to hear from at least one parent how this episode shifted their thoughts and actions around how to help their family
    • Thanks again for listening - Stacy and Sarah will be back next week!
  • (0:40) Welcome

    • Welcome back to The Paleo View listeners!
    • This week Stacy and Sarah are talking about seafood
      • All the seafood and all the things people are concerned about when it comes to seafood
      • And whether or not these concerns are legitimate
      • Stacy and Sarah did discuss this topic on a previous episode (here), but it was time to revisit the discussion
      • Eating seafood is a common talking point on this show since it is so nutrient-dense, anti-inflammatory and healing
    • Before the hosts dive into the topic, they want to take a moment to thank this week's sponsor, Butcher Box
      • They have a special seafood promo that is being offered to The Paleo View listeners and this discount is not being offered anywhere else
      • Butcher Box is starting to move into the realm of seafood
        • Sarah thinks that they have the best salmon she has ever had
        • You can always add salmon to your standard meat subscription
        • However, they now seasonally sell scallops
      • The Paleo View listeners can visit this linkbefore 9/5 to redeem free bacon and free scallops
      • No code is needed
      • After 9/5, The Paleo View listeners will receive $15 off and a free pack of bacon
  • (7:10) Q & A

    • Sarah is going to break down Alana's question and take it step by step to look at every pollutant/processing chemical that might be introduced to fish

      • There are dyes added to some low-quality fish to make it look redder
      • There are times when farmed-fish are fed feed that contain dyes to change the color
        • If dyes are added after the fish are processed, that is going to be added to the label
      • Things that are not going to be on the label:
        • Mercury

          • It irreversibly binds to selenium based proteins and enzymes in our bodies so that those proteins can't do their job

            • It impacts 3 different systems the most:

              • thyroid hormone productions
              • liver detoxification
              • protecting the brain against oxidative damage
          • Seafood is one of our best food sources of selenium and the mercury that the fish are exposed to actually binds with selenium based proteins in their bodies
            • Once it binds with the fish's selenium it can't bind with our selenium
          • When we are consuming that fish, almost all of the time, we are consuming more selenium than we are getting exposed to mercury
            • Even fairy contaminated fish and top predators will have more selenium than mercury
            • So that selenium that we are ingesting in fish is actually still helping to protect us from mercury exposure
          • The surveys that have been done now show that with the exception of a few top predators in fairly polluted waters there is typically much more selenium than mercury in all ocean fish
            • And probably with 97% of lake fish, you are getting more selenium than mercury
          • If you are eating these top predator fish, don't eat them that often
            • Examples: mako shark, pilot whale
          • Your body can still detoxify some of this mercury
            • You can handle a little bit of exposure if you are eating a healthy diet and have a healthy lifestyle
            • A little bit here and there is not a big deal
          • Swordfish is probably fine if it comes from non-polluted waters
            • And again is something you shouldn't eat every day
    • Fish and shellfish are some of our best sources of zinc
      • On average 73% of Americans never meet the RDA of zinc

        • Zinc is supposed to be the second most abundant mineral in the human body

          • It is phenomenally important for a whole host of functions within the human body
    • We are getting really interesting nutrients from fish that are hard to get from other sources
      • Fish protein is the best protein for the gut microbiome

        • There have been studies that actually show that consuming fish protein can make up for high sugar diets
      • The omega-3's are really important for every system in our body
        • Our neurological system, immune system, gut bacteria
        • The omega-3's from seafood are the long-chain that our body can use directly without having to convert them
          • The kind from flax or chia have to be converted before our bodies can use them
    • Fish has all of these amazing things so as we go through the less than ideal things, the cons are outweighed by the pros
    • Alana asked about other heavy metals as well (lead and cadmium)
      • There have been some environmental impact studies that have looked at heavy metal in farmed fish

        • The study found that the levels in the fish are still extremely low and below the World Health Organization's guidelines
        • In places where there are more environmental protections you are going to end up with basically levels of heavy metals that are far below any level that we would want to worry about
      • The other heavy metals are a moot point
      • Fish has been demonized as a source, while it's actually much much richer in nutrients that will help us detoxify
        • It is also much lower than other foods, and yet it gets all the blame
      • Stacy finds it interesting how pervasive mainstream media can be when it comes to creating cultural assumptions
      • Sarah shared information on MTHFR gene variance and MTHFR enzyme function
  • (28:41) More on Contaminants in Fish

    • Cesium isotopes from Fukushima

      • There have been levels detected in fish caught off the California coast
      • Fukushima was the second-worst nuclear disaster ever after Chernobyl, and there is a lot of fear around the aftermath from this event
        • This is an ongoing challenge
        • There is a small amount of cesium-134 and cesium-137 in the ocean thanks to Fukushima
        • What is important to understand is that there are radioactive isotopes in nature all over the place
          • We are exposed to them on a daily basis
          • If you live somewhere with high radon levels you are exposed to more
          • Our body is fairly resilient to these low levels of exposure
          • The amount of cesium isotopes in the most contaminated fish's flesh is even 2,000 times lower than the threshold for health effects
      • So as it pertains to eating fish from the Pacific ocean; no we should not be concerned
      • For more on this, check out this blog postfrom Sarah
    • The equation is:
      • If you consumed 12 ounces (which is a very large portion) of contaminated bluefin tuna every day for an entire year, the cumulative dose of radiation that you would consume from all of that tuna would equate to 12% of the radiation dose from a one-way cross country flight from LA to New York
    • Stacy appreciates that analogy - it is so helpful
    • Sarah and Stacy had a sidebar discussion about personality types
      • Gretchen Rubin's 4 tendencies personality categories
      • Enneagram
      • Sarah shared a story about her experience playing with her kids at the playground recently
    • Concerns around BPA in canned fish packaging
      • Sarah wrote a blog postabout BPA and its' impact as an endocrine disruptor

        • This has been confirmed
        • Sarah shared more on the links between BPA exposure and various medical conditions
      • Our dominant BPA exposure is through our plastic use, not through BPA lined cans
        • It is added as a coating inside a can to stop acidic liquids from corroding the aluminum
      • You can reduce your exposure by:
        • Not heating your food in the can
        • Not letting your canned goods sit in a hot car for a long amount of time
        • Be careful when you are removing food from the can so that you are not scraping the edge coating into your food
      • The BPA alternatives for canned good linings have been minimally tested for safety
        • Many of them have also been shown to be endocrine disruptors
        • There are a lot of unanswered questions around these alternatives
      • The benefits of fish still outweigh the potential harm of BPA exposure
        • If you are making efforts to reduce BPA exposure from other places (plastic food storage, plastic water bottles, plastic wrap)
        • Where you can, mix it up with some fresh and frozen
        • But overall Sarah thinks that again the benefits of eating canned fish outweigh the risks
    • Stacy shared her experience with canned goods and why she doesn't worry about the canned goods they consume
      • How they balance the quality of foods they consume
      • Don't let perfection be the enemy of good
      • If you are unable to afford or find canned goods that are BPA free, don't lose sleep over it
    • Antibiotic use in farmed fish
      • While wild-caught is the best, avoiding fish because wild-caught is not monetarily accessible is probably doing more harm than consuming farmed fish
      • Ask the worker at your fish counter where the fish comes from and they are grown
      • In most Western countries, there are regulations on how much antibiotics can be used and how long they have to be discontinued before fish can be harvested
        • Antibiotic residues are linked with all kinds of problems, so if there isn't a washout period then yes the antibiotic residues can cause health problems
        • Where we see this is in developing nations where the practices are not as tightly regulated and they don't have a vet administering the antibiotics
          • Or using the right dosage and/or are failing to follow directions
      • Don't eat farmed fish when traveling to developing countries
    • Stacy shared on her food evaluation approach
      • Looking for sustainable practices
    • If you don't have access to sustainability sourced seafood, remember to check out Butcher Box
  • (57:37) Closing Thoughts

    • Thank you for joining Stacy and Sarah on this seafood-rich episode!
    • Stacy and Sarah will be back again next week
    • Don't forget to leave a review
    • A listener touched base to share this feedback:
      • "Hi Stacy, I just wanted to tell you that I am listening to the beginning of the last Paleo View podcast where you are giving an update on the little girl who has alopecia. Thank you so much for giving that update! I remember that show. I remember balling my eyes out. I have alopecia too and it got pretty bad towards the end of a really stressful job I had about a year and a half ago. AIP has definitely helped, so has less stress. I too am moving away from super strict AIP because after five months I can tolerate pretty much everything now. Not gluten - I will be gluten-free for life. That is crazy to me. Two weeks into AIP, I broke down and had rice and had a horrible reaction. Eczema being the easiest way to tell I was having a reaction. I never imagined healing to the point of reintroducing so many foods, but it has happened. Thanks for sharing the update! Alopecia can be hard to talk about and there is not that much info out there. So thank you for getting the word out!"
    • Stacy reminds listeners that no matter where you are at in your healing journey, know that the time will come when you can reintroduce foods
      • It takes some people more time than others to heal
    • Sarah loves reading comments like this
      • And seeing the different ways that Stacy and Sarah are able to communicate with people and provide resources
      • She loves to see the different ways the information resonates
    • Thank you, listeners, for being here!
    • Thank you again to Butcher Boxfor supporting this episode!
  • (0:40) Welcome

    • Welcome back to The Paleo View listeners!
    • Stacy is home and is so excited to jump into this week's very science-y topic!
      • Snuggling her pets and sleeping in her own bed, Stacy is so happy
      • Stacy also shared an update on a family that she visited with while in Texas
        • Their daughter has alopecia and her hair is starting to grow back after following an AIP approach and working with her family to heal her body
        • Sarah shared her feelings on how significant this is and what this specific case shows us about the autoimmune protocol
    • This week's show sponsor is Just Thrive probiotics
  • (11:13) The Study that Sparked the Discussion

    • Recently, ahuman study was publishedlooking at how long-term adherence to a Paleo diet affects the gut microbiota and TMAO

      • Mainstream news picked it up the day it was published

        • Using headlines like, "Study linking Paleo diet to increased heart disease risk strengthens diet industry concerns"
      • There are a few physician-focused websites that publish news to keep doctors up to date on the medical literature
        • The headline was, "Paleo diet increases the risk for heart disease"
      • Sarah's inbox and The Paleo View's inbox was flooded with questions
      • It is common in these situations for mainstream media to pick up on any anti-fad diet study
        • The standard response from our community is to find some reason why this study is irrelevant
    • TMAO is often linked with red meat consumption
      • It is thought to be one of the mechanisms behind the link between increased cancer risk and increased cardiovascular disease risk and high red meat consumption
    • The reason why Sarah wants to dedicate an entire episode to this study is that it was very well done
      • It has some results that we need to pay attention to
      • Sarah doesn't see this study as a nail in the coffin on the Paleo diet
      • Instead, Sarah sees this as a very serious warning about a very particular type of implementation of Paleo
        • We need to make sure we are incorporating all the key principles of Paleo, instead of combining Paleo with other dietary approaches
    • This study shows us that there are problems with the longterm implementation of a low carb Paleo diet
      • Really what it is telling us is that root vegetables and fruit are awesome
    • The study was performed in Australia and they took people who self-reported following the Paleo diet for over a year
      • The controls were following the national dietary recommendations of Australia

        • These are similar to the recommendations made by the USDA/MyPlate
      • Within the Paleo group, they further divided them into two subgroups
        • The people who followed Paleo very strictly were called strict Paleo
        • The other group was called pseudo-Paleo
          • These people were consuming about one serving of grains or dairy per day

            • In the real world, most of us who have been following Paleo for a longtime fall closer to that pseudo-Paleo group
            • Strict Paleo is often the challenge Paleo group or is utilized by those who are using it for therapeutic purposes
      • They had these people do a three-day weighed diet record
        • Measure and record everything they were eating
        • They then did urine tests to measure nitrogen and the Goldberg cut point
          • If those urine tests didn't match the dietary records they were eliminated from the study
        • They eliminated anybody who had been on antibiotics, cholesterol medication, blood pressure-lowering medication, previously diagnosed with cardiovascular disease, anyone with any kind of GI disorder, or anyone who has had surgery on their GI tract
          • They were eliminating anyone who would predictively be an outlier
      • They then did a series of measurements (TMAO, blood work, stool analysis)
        • The two measurements that turned out to be different between the Paleo and pseudo-Paleo group was the amount of TMAO in their blood and what was happening in their gut microbiome
      • Sarah explained more about why TMAO was a focal point in this study
        • Studies that pool all of these studies together show that if you have higher TMAO in your blood you have a higher risk of cardiovascular disease

          • 23% increased risk
          • And 55% increased risk of all-cause mortality
            • Which is a general marker of health and longevity
    • The interesting thing that Sarah notes, is that there has also been a lot of research that fails to show a causal link
      • The majority of the science from the last few years makes this picture of TMAO as an indicator or a symptom as opposed to the direct link between high red meat consumption and heart disease
    • How we get TMAO:
      • Some we absorb directly from food
      • Most of the TMAO is made by our gut bacteria when they metabolize choline, lecithin, and carnitine
      • So it is a multi-step process
        • Sarah shared more on this process and how TMAO is created
    • Researchers have discovered over the last few years that how much TMAO is in your bloodstream is far more correlated to your gut microbiome than to how much carnitine you ingest
    • There are certain bacteria that have been shown to be TMA producers
    • There is now this really interesting picture being painted with all the scientific literature showing that TMAO is potentially, rather than a causal link between red meat consumption and cardiovascular disease and cancer, that it's an indicator of a gut microbiome that is conducive to disease development
      • As we start to look at TMAO it is probably less related to red meat consumption, so much as a dysbiosis in the gut

        • One of the best pieces of evidence for this is that fish is really really high in TMAO

          • People will get 300x more TMAO in their blood after eating fish than after eating beef, even if they have a microbiome that produces TMAO

            • And fish is uniformly beneficial and reduces the risk of heart disease
    • Sarah has seen in relation to this new scientific study is arguments that say, "TMAO probably doesn't cause heart disease, therefore Paleo causing high TMAO is nothing we need to worry about"
      • This isn't something Sarah agrees with

        • High TMAO, especially when it is not timed with TMAO rich foods, generally is an indicator of something going wrong with our gut bacteria that needs to be paid attention to
        • The way that this study was designed to measure high TMAO food consumption is not taking into account seafood, which is something worth paying attention to
  • (27:40) Testosterone Deficiency

    • What is happening in this particular new study looking at strict Paleo and pseudo-Paleo adherence is not that TMAO is going up because the Paleo people are eating more fish

      • But rather that the TMAO is going up as a result of a shift in the gut microbiome
    • The study also took a deeper look into the gut microbiome
      • They found overall big trends
      • However, the study did find that two particular genres of probiotic bacteria were really low in the Paleo and pseudo-Paleo groups
        • Bifidobacteria
        • Roseburia bacteria
      • This is something really important to pay attention to
      • Bifidobacteria are some of our main vitamin producers
        • They are important for inhibiting pathogen colonization in the gut
        • They help to modulate our immune responses
        • They modulate the gut barrier
        • They can reduce inflammation
        • They can improve glucose intolerance
        • Low bifidobacteria is associated with a ton of different health problems
      • We get bifidobacteria from fermented dairy and sauerkraut
        • They love starch loving bacteria, especially fermented starch
      • There is a little less known about roseburia bacteria and fewer species
        • We do know that they are very important for maintaining gut barrier health

          • So if you have low roseburia you have a leakier gut
        • They are very important immune regulators, especially at reducing inflammation
        • Low roseburia is also associated with many health conditions:
          • Cardiovascular disease
          • Autoimmune disease
          • IBS
          • Neurological disease
          • Allergies
          • Asthma
        • They are really important members of a healthy gut microbiome
          • The levels of this bacteria were tanked in the study
          • Another genus had taken their place, called Hungatella
            • This strain isn't as well studied as bifidobacteria or roseburia
            • But hungatella are TMAO producers
            • They are absolutely associated with TMAO
              • And this is probably why given that these people following Paleo were also consuming more red meat than the controls

                • So they were consuming the precursors at the same time as they were shifting their gut bacteria towards a TMAO producing bacteria type
                • Their gut bacteria was making more TMAO
                • We don't super understand if high hungatella might be linked with disease but we do know that the low roseburia and low bifidobacteria is potentially a problem
    • As this study looks at high TMAO and all these different measurements of what these people are eating and we have this shift in the gut bacteria
      • We have all of this really fascinating correlation analysis to try to understand what aspect it was of the study diet that was actually causing these shifts
      • While TMAO itself was mostly aligned with red meat consumption, the shift in the gut microbiome that was driving TMAO production was actually most closely related to total carb consumption as well as resistant starch consumption
      • In the control group, those people were mostly eating grains as their carb source
      • In the Paleo and pseudo-Paleo group, they were mostly eating non-starchy vegetables
        • Hardly any roots and tubers
        • Hardly any fruit
        • So both groups were only consuming 90ish grams of carbs a day, but getting quite a bit of fiber
          • They were consuming 6 to 7 servings of vegetables a day
          • As you dig into the details of what they were eating, they were not eating as much resistance starch
        • This indicates that this particular implementation of Paleo in this particular study is a low carb  Paleo template
          • Less than 100 grams of carbs a day
          • Close to 30 grams of fiber
        • This is where the change in the gut microbiome is really predictable
          • Both roseburia and bifidobacteria thrive in starchy conditions and are very sensitive to the types of carbohydrates we consume
          • Out gut bacteria have an amazing ability to digest carbohydrates
            • Sarah shared more on this process
          • If we don't feed our bifidobacteria the right type of food it can't survive
            • This is why this is such a sensitive species
    • There is this whole other fascinating to Sarah link with TMAO and what is happening in a low carb diet and the gut bacteria
      • This whole other life form is called Archaea

        • These are normal residents of the gut
        • They are the main methane producers
          • These particular methane-producing Archaea use compounds like TMAO and TMA to produce methane
        • The diet factor that most strongly correlates with Archaea in the gut is carbohydrate consumption
          • We know that Archaea are fruit and starch lovers
      • Sarah dug deeper into the picture being painted by the results from this study
        • All of the things that would fix this gut microbiome and reduce TMAO production is to eat starchy roots and tubers and fruit
      • When you dig into these details this study makes a very strong case for high starchy vegetable consumption not being sufficient to support the gut microbiome
        • It is not enough to get fiber from non-starchy vegetables
        • We need the type of fiber that is in fruit and resistance starch in root vegetables that is going to support a healthy gut microbiome that is going to reduce the risk of disease
        • This study very cleverly used TMAO as a marker of those gut microbiome changes
          • It is the mainstream media that is then making the leap to it actually impacting cardiovascular disease risk
    • Stacy said that it is shocking to see another study supporting this idea that vegetables are good for you
    • Sarah is really starting to see the evidence accumulate for problems associated with long-term low carb approaches
      • We need a diversity of fruits and vegetables and need to not be afraid of the carbohydrates in starchy vegetables
      • Even if you can't do nightshades there are plenty of wonderful options
      • We need to not be fruit-phobic
      • The science is mounting up that we actually do best with moderate carbs, moderate fat, moderate protein
        • These approaches that are driving macronutrient extremes and even macronutrient imbalance have problems associated with them
    • Why have these diets lasted so long as weight loss approaches?
      • It is because it is a set of rules that result in ditching hyper-palatable foods and trick you into reducing your caloric intake
    • When we can formulate a much healthier option that embraces whole food sources of carbohydrates without demonizing them
      • It this uphill battle against the amount of misinformation that is out there on the internet that needs to be fixed
      • Sarah's call to action (besides everyone going home and eating a sweet potato) is to contribute to this conversation of avoiding carb phobia
        • The manufactured food carbohydrates are clearly bad, but we don't need to lump these super nutrient-dense roots, tubers, starchy vegetables and fruit and demonize them with cupcakes
    • Stacy shared her thoughts on how we as humans are drawn to very dogmatic ideals
      • The truth of the matter is that not all carbs are the same
  • (49:42) Closing Thoughts

    • If you found this show fascinating, go back and check out the insulin showfor more on gut health and overall human health

      • It will help to make a lot of sense of the study
    • Stacy shared examples of cases when kids are put on extreme diets and does it make sense to put kids into these dogmatic bubbles?
      • If you answered no, then why does it make sense to put yourself into these bubbles?
      • Is it just purely weight loss, or are you really thinking about health?
    • Studies like this always make Stacy go back to the mentality of, just focus on health
      • Colorful, rainbow foods exist for a reason
      • There is so much science to support why it is healthy for you
    • Stacy reminds people that none of us are perfect
      • Making healthy choices every day is something we need to be mindful of, and that is hard
      • It can be overwhelming, but there are things you can do to make it easier on yourself and to be excited
        • Take your kids with you to the grocery store and let them pick out vegetables and fruits that they love
        • When you get home from the store cut them up and have them on hand in the fridge
        • We as adults can do this to
    • This is the kind of thing where it is easy to get frustrated and overwhelmed with mixed messages  and not sure what to do and to feel like you can't win
      • And this isn't the case
      • If good quality gluten-free oats agree with you and your family, enjoy them
        • Add some antioxidant-rich fruits, mix in some yogurt if that agrees with you because these things are feeding your gut in a good way
        • It is about balance, and if we just relaxed into real food a little bit it would come easier and more natural to us
    • Sarah agrees with Stacy
      • Gluten-free oats are a gut microbiome superfood

        • These won't agree with everyone
      •  There are a list of foods that we define as not being Paleo, but they are great for the gut microbiome and when prepared correctly are nutrient-dense whole foods
      • Sarah identifies with the label Paleo, but she thinks of Paleo as a diet that looks to Paleoanthropology in terms of understanding human biology and then confirms with contemporary studies with a biological systems approach
        • It has a rooted in science approach
    • This study is a really good illustration of the importance of taking this really thorough broad look at what foods do for us and don't do for us
      • And also understanding that one of the biggest problems that we have run into over the last 50 years is this idea that we have to just make a list of yes foods and no foods

        • We define all of these diets by what you cut out, not based on what you eat
        • When people are troubleshooting they cut out more
        • It isn't what you don't eat that makes a diet healthy, it is what you actually put in your face that makes your diet something that supports your body or not
        • Sarah thinks it is important for this community to stop with the memes, the soundbites, and the lists and the rules
          • Start embracing a broader education around health topics that help us really understand what is in foods that help our bodies and what is in foods that may potentially undermine our health
          • We need to start looking at the gray and not just the black and white so that we can start making informed choices
          • Look at universal truths as opposed to arbitrary rules
          • Dig in and understand
    • If you want to help your gut health, be sure to check out Stacy and Sarah's favorite probiotic
    • Thank you Sarah for taking the time to do all of this research
    • Thanks for listening everyone! We will be back next week!

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