The Paleo View

The Paleo View: Parenting, Science, and Gossip

Welcome back to episode 381! (0:40)

This is the episode where Stacy's heart will be broken as they discuss if breakfast is the most important meal of the day.

Before diving in, Stacy wants to lay the groundwork and stress the importance of bio-individuality.

Stacy doesn't have a gallbladder and she has learned that breakfast is very difficult for her in the morning.

Through trial and error, she has learned how to boost her digestion and get things going so that she can eat an early lunch.

However, she would love to know how to improve this situation for herself personally.

This show was inspired by a listener's question and this is a topic that Sarah has blogged about before and is excited to discuss here as well.

The effect of eating in the morning is tangentially looking at intermitting fasting research.

Not to spoil the conclusion of the show, but after digging into the latest research - yes, breakfast is really important.

Sarah naturally leans towards sumo dieting.

This is an eating pattern where you load the majority of your eating towards the later part of the day.

Sarah has to be intentional about eating breakfast because of this tendency.

Over the years, Sarah has seen that her lack of interest in food in the morning correlates with stress.


Q & A

Here is the listener's question (7:24):

Hey ladies! I so look forward to tuning in each week to listen in on your conversations, thank you for all the work you both do to educate us!

I guess I’m a long-time listener, first-time caller.

Here's my question, how important is it to eat breakfast?

I am usually up and out of bed by 7 am, coffee in hand by 7:15, but I don’t get hungry until 11 am. 

Then I am a grazer until about 3 pm, dinner is around 7 pm and I am in bed by 8:30 pm, asleep about an hour later.

Sarah, I do take your sleep advice very seriously and I have made sleep my top priority.

I would really like to drop about 15 lbs and I am willing to make a shift in when I eat if that would help.

Am I missing out on important health benefits by skipping breakfast?

The short answer is yes, it appears as though breakfast is a really important metabolic control.

This relates to both the hormones that are required to supply our body with energy in the morning and also some hormonal programming that is impacted through the day.

There have been a variety of research done over the last 10-15 years on skipping breakfast.

A lot of this research showed correlative results, not causation.

In the last five years, there have been some really well-designed crossover trials.

Sarah explained this study design in greater detail.


The Research

There have been some studies that are starting to show that regularly skipping breakfast does negatively impact metabolism. (10:55)

This is in the context of an increased risk of metabolic syndrome.

As we look at the data, what is really interesting is that regardless of the group of people you select, there are measurable problems with skipping breakfast.

For example, there was a study done on healthy lean women where they ate three meals a day for two weeks straight, or they skipped breakfast for two weeks straight.

Some of these studies the caloric intake is controlled, in this study, it wasn't.

In this particular study, neither group lost weight.

However, in the group that skipped breakfast, they had reduced insulin sensitivity, they tended to eat more, and they were getting unfavorable fasting lipids.

Other studies that looked at overweight and obese participants and the impact of shifting their highest calorie meal to breakfast.

This shift improved their fasting glucose and insulin sensitivity, lowered triglycerides, and they experienced weight loss.


Additional Studies

There have been a variety of other studies that have looked at when you skip breakfast you have a higher glycemic response to the same meal at lunch.

Studies that have shown that women and men who skip breakfast will be more insulin resistant later in the day.

There is also an impact on cortisol and sex hormones.

A metanalysis was assembled on people who routinely skip breakfast and their risk for developing type-2 diabetes.

Even after adjusting for BMI, you are 22% more likely to develop diabetes if you regularly skip breakfast.

There was another meta-analysis looking at men and women over forty.

The study compared people who regularly skip breakfast versus people who eat three meals a day on a regular basis.

Those who regularly skipped breakfast were 22% more likely to experience cardiovascular disease and die from it.

The all-cause mortality in that study showed that skipping breakfast resulted in a 32% higher all-cause mortality.

These numbers really surprised Sarah because of the high magnitude of the effect.

Breakfast is programming our metabolism.

This includes how we are processing fats and how we are processing carbohydrates.

Whether or not we eat breakfast impacts our blood lipids, glucose response, and insulin sensitivity for the rest of the day.

Now there are studies that are starting to get more nitty-gritty, controlling more factors. (16:57)

In another study there were three groups that either had three meals a day, they skipped breakfast, or they skipped dinner.

Everything in this study was controlled.

They found, that if you skipped a meal you did have a little higher energy expenditure.

When the participants skipped breakfast, they also had higher inflammation and impaired blood sugar response.

All of these metabolic effects were not related to skipping a meal but were related to skipping breakfast versus dinner.

The study made an argument that if you are going to do intermittent fasting, have your feeding window earlier in the day.

Food is more thermogenic in the morning compared to the evening.

There is a stress piece to all of this.

People who are stressed are more likely to skip breakfast, which is a symptom of things not being great.

However, skipping breakfast drives cortisol dysregulation, caused by chronic stress, which makes the person not want to eat breakfast.

Sarah found one study that showed that adolescents were 44% more likely to eat breakfast if they got enough sleep.


The Habit Connection

We know that sleep is really important for regulating metabolism, and not getting enough sleep increases the risk of obesity.

Good habits tend to go together, and bad habits tend to compound as well.

If you don't get enough sleep, your at higher risk of developing type-2 diabetes, and you are also at higher risk of not eating breakfast, which will increase your risk of type-2 diabetes.

As you pull the threads it is easy to see where you can have these snowball effects in terms of your lifestyle choices.

Eating breakfast that includes a high-quality protein is really important for programming our metabolism, insulin, cortisol, and sex hormones throughout the day.

We are more likely to consume breakfast if we are getting enough sleep and regulating our stress.

These habits feed into each other.

Sarah finds this reality to be empowering because as she makes choices, no one choice feels really hard because it feeds into other choices.

Stacy shared a bit on the conflicting information she has heard over the years surrounding intermittent fasting.

There are a few key details to pull away from the studies regarding the ideal breakfast.

The calories in your breakfast, 20 to 30% should contain protein.

There have been studies showing that even higher protein breakfasts are more beneficial for metabolism, leaning towards 40 to 50% at breakfast only.

Sarah defined breakfast as 350 to 600 calories, with the goal to aim for that middle range.

Stacy noted that what works for her is to have a collagen veggie smoothie with coffee and half a banana.

Since she doesn't have a gallbladder, she drinks this slowly and paces it out, and it does help to get her digestive system up and running in the morning.

Sarah took a moment to remind everyone what Gallbladder disease is since it is very common. (36:05)

Stacy shared more on how she balances everything out and why she has to be mindful around her choices.

It is important to understand what works best for your body so that you can set yourself up for success.


Closing Thoughts

One of the things that the autoimmune protocol did for Sarah was to break the association that certain foods are breakfast foods.

She no longer thinks that eggs, bacon, cereal, and bagels are standard breakfast foods.

Now, Sarah thinks that anything she can get that is quick and healthy counts. (43:07)

For a long time, Sarah has relied on leftovers for breakfast.

Sarah also has a variety of sausage recipes in her books and on her site, which she preps in batches.

Stacy and Sarah are both huge fans of soups for breakfast as well.

Check out these broth resources (here and here).

Since breakfast isn't something that is easy for Sarah to get in, she set up an assembly line to batch prep smoothies.

The big takeaway that Sarah wants for the Paleo View listeners is to understand that forming the habit to consume breakfast is worth it.

You can make a smoothie, grab Chomps sticks or Wild Zora with a piece of fruit, or have leftovers from the night before.

You can find a way to get healthy food in your body first thing in the morning.

It should be a meal that doesn't require work that sets you up for the day.

Breakfast should be a part of every day.

Stacy and Sarah will share their breakfasts on social media, and feel free to do the same and tag them to share the inspiration. 

We are great at taking care of others (like our children and spouse) but don't forget to take care and feed yourself as well. 

Stacy and Sarah will be back again next week with a topic that Stacy is super excited about. 

They have planned out their podcast schedule for the next five weeks, and look forward to sharing the topics that often come up around the holidays. 

Thanks for listening!

If you have follow up questions please feel free to submit them through the contact forms on Stacy and Sarah's sites. 

As always, Stacy and Sarah also love to connect with listeners on social media as well!

Thanks for listening! (53:58)

Welcome back to episode 380, where we are going to try so hard to not be the longest podcast. (0:40)

For those who are listening to this in America - happy Thanksgiving!

Stacy hopes that everyone had a wonderful holiday with your family.

This was Sarah's first Thanksgiving as an American.

Stacy saw Frozen 2 and recommends it to others; she really enjoyed it.

This week's episode is about food cravings while you are pregnant.


Listener's Question

Here is a question that Stacy and Sarah received that sparked the topic for this week's show (5:11):

Since becoming pregnant, I have felt nauseous all day, every day, and the thought of food has been unappealing.

All of my regular Paleo foods, which I loved eating before, seem revolting.

I am craving food that is sweet like juice and fruit, which is not something I ate a lot of before.

I also crave bread and fast food. I am loving the salty and greasy foods and so far have found Paleo substitutions, but I know that is not healthy either.

Do you have any suggestions on what to do?

Should I just give up the paleo lifestyle for my pregnancy and get back into it afterward?

I fear to gain back the 100lbs I lost over the past two years.

Thanks so much! I love your podcast it taught me all about paleo. I had no idea what it was before you guys!

Stacy said kudos to this listener.

Neither Stacy or Sarah were Paleo while pregnant.

For Stacy, she found Paleo through a breastfeeding perspective, but not a pregnancy perspective.

Stacy feels that there are things you can do to steer yourself to a healthier option.

Remember, there is nothing healthy about looking back and having guilt about what you did or did not do during your pregnancies.

Do not let perfection be the enemy of good.

Sarah and Stacy want to talk about how you can do the best you can while maintaining quality of life.

It doesn't serve us well to live with absolutes and ultimatums.

Sarah brought up the way the 80/20 rule can be utilized here.

In order to maintain this for the rest of your life, the goal is to make the best choice as often as you can.

The goal is to maintain a healthy relationship with food, and yourself.

Sarah talked about the gray area foods.

When we assign intent to food it opens up the door for our food choices to be stressful.

Food is meant to nourish our bodies, and our diet template should inform us as to what eating style works best for us as an individual.

Sarah's goal is nutrient sufficiency, and she knows which foods her body does not tolerate.

Other than avoiding foods that will make her ill, Sarah is looking at foods for their nutritional value.

Thinking of diet in terms of 'what does my body need' and are my food choices meeting those needs - allows for a level of flexibility.

This flexibility allows us to get away from that mindset of labeling food as good or bad and getting fanatical about the foods we are eating.


Stacy's Pregnancy Cravings Story

When Stacy was pregnant, she very much craved fast food. (15:30)

Food from Taco Bell with beans was the thing she craved most.

While out one day, Stacy told Matt that she needed a bean burrito.

Ten minutes had passed by and she still didn't have her burrito, so Stacy yelled at Matt that she was going to die and that he didn't understand what was happening.

Stacy tells listeners this story to convey just how very real pregnancy cravings are.

In the case of pregnancy, something happens that takes over the normal part of who you are and become intensified.


The Science

There are some interesting hypotheses and bits of data that will help to explain the strong cravings that some pregnant women do have. (19:28)

Between 60 and 90% of women experience a strong level of cravings.

What foods women are cravings tend to be culturally influenced.

Stacy and Sarah shared a bit about how their cravings varied from pregnancy to pregnancy.

There was a study in Tanzania where they looked at what pregnant women were craving and found that a 1/4 was meat, a 1/4 was mangoes, a 1/5 of women craved yogurt, 1/5 craved oranges, 1/6 craved plantains.

Sarah thinks that we are craving some kind of flavor experience, and culturally we have associations with that flavor experience.

There are two or three plausible explanations for what is driving those cravings.

One is a change in hunger hormones.

It is not fully understood how a change in hunger hormones is causing cravings for specific foods.

There are also changes to our taste buds that are happening during pregnancy, specifically our salt sensitivity decreases.

This may explain the desire for more extreme flavors.

These are often the foods that are super rewarding to the brain.

Sarah explained the way that different areas of the brain connect to our senses.

This area of science is all very hypothetical.


Nutritional Needs

There are certain nutrients that are very important for supporting development of the fetus, so the demand for these increases while pregnant. (29:05)

When we are in a place where we are eating a relatively healthy diet, and we are better able to eat intuitively, we will naturally crave these nutrient-dense foods in pregnancy.

For people who can't eat intuitively, they just tend to crave food.

Calcium and magnesium deficiencies can manifest as sugar cravings.

In pregnancy, we don't understand a direct one-to-one correspondence.

Folate is needed from very early on in pregnancy to support healthy neural tube development in a fetus’s brain and spinal cord.

The recommended intake for pregnant women (as well as women planning to conceive) is 600 to 800 mcg daily, and the best sources are leafy green vegetables, asparagus, broccoli, avocados, nuts, seeds, beets, cauliflower, and squash.

Vitamin A is vital for embryonic development, including the growth of the eyes, heart, lungs, kidneys, central nervous system, respiratory system, and circulatory system.

It is best to meet your Vitamin A requirements from animal foods.

Vitamin D plays a critical role in facilitating calcium absorption, metabolism, and immune function.

Calcium is needed for skeletal development, blood pressure regulation, and proper muscle and nerve functioning, and it becomes particularly important for the fetus during third-trimester bone development.

The best Paleo-friendly sources are leafy green vegetables, broccoli, small bone-in fish like sardines, and grass-fed dairy.

There are easy tricks you can do to increase your calcium intake.

Choline is important for the development of the fetal nervous system, neural tube, and brain.

Pregnant women should consume at least 450 milligrams per day. The richest sources are egg yolks, liver, shrimp, and beef.

Iron is needed for a fetus’s rapidly developing blood supply and for the expanding blood supply of the mother.

For pregnant women, 27 milligrams daily is recommended. The best sources are red meat, organ meat, and leafy green vegetables.

Zinc is used for fetal cell growth, as well as supporting immunity, enzyme production, and insulin production in the mother.

Pregnant women should aim for 11 milligrams per day from rich sources like beef, pork, poultry, seafood (especially oysters), nuts, and seeds.

Although there aren’t clearly established omega-3 requirements for pregnant women, essential fatty acids are recommended.

The best sources being low-mercury fatty fish and other seafood, walnuts, and omega-3–enriched eggs.

When it comes to quality seafood sources, Sarah referred listeners to check out this podcast episode.


The Bigger Picture

Sarah feels that the primary criteria for diet, in general, is nutrient sufficiency. (44:29)

You should get the full complement of essential and non-essential nutrients in adequate and synergistic quantities.

The more nutrient-dense foods we choose, the more wiggle room we earn for ourselves in suboptimal choices.

Sarah feels that it is ok to honor your cravings.

Make intentional choices when we are not being driven by these cravings to do our best to meet the nutritional needs of our pregnant bodies right now.

Remember that the lifestyle aspects impact cravings as well.

Meeting nutritional needs (and lifestyle!) during pregnancy is more important than what dietary framework you follow.

Nutrient sufficiency is important, but so is your relationship with food.

Absolutes are not the only way to navigate pregnancy cravings and aversions.

Stacy pointed out the role that nutrient absorption plays with cravings.

Probiotics have significantly helped with Stacy's cravings.

Talk to a medical professional when supplementing your diet.


Closing Thoughts

Thank you so much for tuning in and listening! (53:08) 

If you know someone who is pregnant or thinking about getting pregnant that would appreciate this show, please share it with them.

Please also leave a review as this helps others find this show.

Thank you so much for your support listeners!

As the decade is ending, Stacy has been doing a lot of reflecting and hopes that others are using this time to look back and also look ahead at what you want for the next decade.

Thank you for being here! Stacy and Sarah will be back next week! (55:37)

Stacy and Sarah are back again, with Sarah leading the charge this week. (0:40)

Sarah likes to think of last week's episode as a hodgepodge.

When Stacy structured last week's episode she wanted it to be a catch-up show that was worth listeners' time, and she hopes everyone enjoyed it!

This week's episode is about coffee.

Coffee has come up in probably half of the episodes because Stacy and Sarah so commonly receive questions around that topic.

Before diving in, Stacy thanked this week's sponsor, Clean Coffee Company.

This brand is both delicious and goes above and beyond when it comes to ensuring that their beans are toxin-free.

You can use the code '15paleoview' at this link to receive 15% off your order.

On this episode, Stacy and Sarah are going to talk a lot about the research from the last couple of years looking at the effects of coffee, and overall the data has been mixed.

There is a thought throughout a number of studies that the potential concerns for some people for coffee consumption have to do with coffee quality.

Quality is very important for a number of reasons, which is why Sarah has fallen in love with Clean Coffee Co.

Sarah fell in love with the flavor of their coffee first, and their practices around the quality testing second. It is very impressive how controlled and clean it is.

It is very important to source a coffee that is being very transparent about their farming practices.


The Science

To Sarah coffee is a hot topic.

It is the second most consumed beverage after water.

Coffee is a major trade commodity as well.

There have been a lot of news stories highlighting the way science has flip-flopped on whether coffee is good or bad for you. (10:02)

These discussions have used this situation to say that scientists don't really know what they are talking about.

Sarah shared on the communication challenge between academic labs and media outlets.

The scientific consensus is an important piece to understand in this all.

With coffee, there have been a number of really well done, big studies, meta-analysis, that have reached scientific consensus.

In the last couple of decades leading up to this point, the media has oversimplified the findings from these studies.

The way these studies were shared did not accurately share how science is done.

Coffee does have some really exciting health benefits for most people.

There are over 800 phytochemicals in coffee.

There are also a number of antioxidants that have a variety of important properties.

Coffee also contains some unique fiber types. There is half a gram of fiber per cup of coffee.

There are two types of fiber present, and studies have shown that these two types increase levels of Bifidobacteria. 

These fibers also reduce the growth of problematic E. coli and Clostridium species.

They help with the production of short-chain fatty acids.

There have been some exciting studies looking at the application of coffee in terms of the gut microbiome.

There was one study, in particular, looking at why coffee might reduce diabetes risk.

The study showed that coffee consumption was able to prevent diet-related changes to the gut microbiome.


Breaking It Down Further

Chlorogenic acids (CGAs) are compounds known as the most potent antioxidants found in coffee. (20:15)

CGAs are believed to be a major contributor to coffee’s health effects, with the proposed mechanism being CGA impacts cell signaling pathways that contribute to the onset of degenerative diseases.

There have been some interesting studies showing that CGAs help us metabolize different toxins and they impact our blot clotting.

Polyphenols change the composition of the gut microbiome in a good way; they suppress the growth of pathogens while increasing the growth of probiotics.

Coffee has a triple whammy in terms of the gut microbiome.

It is both the unique fiber in coffee, as well as these polyphenols that are benefiting gut microbiome composition.

Another important compound in coffee is Trigonelline. (22:33)

This compound is known to be hypoglycemic, neuroprotective, protect against cancer, impact estrogen levels, and it has some antibacterial properties as well.

Coffee beverages are one of the only sources of melanoidins in the human diet.

These compounds act similarly to dietary fiber without actually being fiber.

Research shows that the amount of coffee melanoidins that reach the colon with heavy coffee consumption is one of the proposed mechanisms for coffee’s anti-colorectal cancer effects.

Sarah shared a bit on the science behind why coffee is often viewed as a laxative.


The Other Side

Not all phytochemicals are linked with only health benefits. (25:49)

There are a couple that have potential cholesterol-raising properties.

It is interesting because they have anti-cancer effects, while also potentially raising cholesterol.

Sarah shared an example of how broccoli has a similar situation with its phytochemicals and the cost-benefit analysis.


The Health Benefits of Coffee

This is where the landmark studies have solidified coffee as a health-promoting beverage for most people. (28:28)

Two huge meta-analyses that were published two years ago showed a huge reduction in all-cause mortality from coffee consumption.

Sarah explained all-cause mortality in greater detail.

The optimal dose of coffee in one of the studies Sarah explained was found to be three cups of coffee per day.

Three cups of coffee (8 oz.) per day reduced the risk of all-cause mortality by 17%.

The study found that it didn't matter if the coffee was caffeinated or decaf.

With some of the other health benefits of coffee, the caffeine aspect does matter, but the big picture study showed that decaffeinated was almost as good as caffeinated.

This implies that it is the fiber and the phytonutrients and not the caffeine in the coffee that is having the impact.

This is also another strong argument for seeking high-quality coffee.

There is a reduction in deaths from cardiovascular disease (19% risk reduction), coronary heart disease (16% risk reduction), and strokes (30% risk reduction).

These studies are again looking at people who are drinking three cups of coffee a day.

While increasing consumption above three cups doesn’t increase harm, it doesn’t show much benefit, either.

Importantly, women seem to benefit more than men here.

There is also an impact of caffeine on blood pressure. (37:25)

When you have a caffeinated beverage your blood pressure goes up, which is an excepted risk factor of cardiovascular disease.

This seems counterintuitive and is still an unanswered question in this entire field of research.

Stacy shared a bit about how interesting this is because the way people's reactions to consuming coffee vary so much from person to person.

Sarah touched a bit on energy dips and what causes them.

Energy dips in the afternoon are not normal and are a sign that something could be improved upon in terms of lifestyle.

Stacy noted that this is a good thing to keep an eye on.

These are triggers when your body is trying to communicate a message.


More on the Health Benefits

Drinking coffee reduces the risk of type-2 diabetes by 30%. (44:44)

This is another effect that is seen in both caffeinated and decaffeinated coffee consumption.

Coffee can also reduce the risk of other metabolic diseases.

Specific to caffeinated coffee, there is a decrease in the risk of neurological diseases.

The biggest body of scientific literature is with Parkinson’s disease, showing that coffee consumption reduces the risk of Parkinson’s.

Emerging evidence is showing that it can reduce the risk of depression and other cognitive disorders, including Alzheimer’s disease.

Caffeine increases blood circulation to the brain.

Coffee seems like it could be good for the liver as well.

Studies have found a reduced risk for non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (29% reduction), liver fibrosis (27% reduction), and cirrhosis (39% reduction).

All of these findings were with high consumption or having one extra cup per day.

Coffee also helps with gallbladder health, as high consumers (2-6 cups a day) have a lower risk for gallstone disease.

There is a strong relationship between coffee consumption and reduced cancer risk.

Generally, there is about an 18% reduction in the chances of being diagnosed with cancer in high coffee drinkers.

Researchers have found a lower risk of prostate cancer, endometrial cancer, melanoma, oral cancer, leukemia, non-melanoma skin cancer, and liver cancer.

There is some increased risk with high consumption and certain cancers, specifically lung cancer.

This detail is dependent on smoking status.

Taken all together, we are seeing some really impressive health benefits to regular coffee consumption. (49:16)

Most of those effects are optimized at two to three cups a day.


The Caveats

It is important to recognize that coffee does not work for everybody.

There are some people who would do better to look at other hot beverages.

People with familial hypercholesterolemia should avoid coffee. 

With high cholesterol, it is worth experimenting with your coffee intake.

If you are under chronic stress and your cortisol is elevated in the morning, adding a caffeine stimulus to the equation is not going to be beneficial.

When cortisol is not high in the morning, then coffee may be a good stimulus.

If you have difficulty managing stress as it is, caffeine is not helpful to you.

When you have issues with cortisol timing throughout the day, it is worthwhile doing a salivary cortisol panel.

Drinking coffee slightly increases our chance of developing gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD or “acid reflux).

Although, you could simply find a coffee with lower acid levels.

Sarah explained genes that regulate coffee metabolism and the way this varies from one person to the next. (54:57)

There is some evidence that higher caffeine consumption can increase anxiety.

Be aware of this and talk to a doctor about it if you are experiencing this symptom.

Coffee itself if generally anti-inflammatory.

There are lots of anti-inflammatory antioxidants in coffee.

However, there are also a couple of phytochemicals that may increase inflammation.

Especially in a low-quality coffee, these inflammatory phytochemicals would be higher.

The findings in this research are mixed, so coffee is still eliminated initially on the AIP.

Coffee is a phase one reintroduction because for some it is beneficial and anti-inflammatory.

Talk to your doctor if you have a health condition that might mean that high coffee consumption or high caffeine consumption are not going to benefit you.

Also, be critical in your self-reflection.


Closing Thoughts

Overall the scientific literature shows that the vast majority of us can benefit from two to three cups of coffee a day.

Especially when the coffee is a high-quality coffee.

There is not a one size fits all approach.

Engage with functional integrative medicine and be critical with self-experimentation.

Be willing to re-evaluate when things are not working for you.

This is one of those areas where Stacy and Sarah recommend that you be self-reflective.

Stacy and Sarah shared details on how they prefer their coffee.

Stacy shared a bit more on the way different styles of coffee (ex: shot of espresso vs. brewed) metabolizes differently.

Espresso actually has higher antioxidants and lower caffeine because it is hot water pressed through the grounds at high pressure.

Americanos have less caffeine than brewed coffee.

With cold-brew you are going to miss some of the antioxidants, but you will have lower acidity and lower caffeine.

Be sure to follow the instructions for coffee concentrates.

Just like with anything else, it is important to listen to your body.

Thank you so much for tuning in to this week's show!

And a huge thank you again to this week's sponsor, Clean Coffee Company.

Don't forget, you can use the code '15paleoview' at this link to receive 15% off your order.

Thank you for tuning in!

Stacy and Sarah will be back again next week.

If you are tuning in late, Stacy wishes everyone a wonderful Thanksgiving! (1:10:16)

Welcome back to The Paleo View - episode 378. (0:40)

Today Stacy and Sarah plan to talk about some current events.

Stacy wanted to take a moment to thank the imperfect Skype for being there for 378 episodes.

Before jumping in, Stacy shared a side tangent on a podcast Matt has taken to listening to with the boys, where they use the show to read funny reviews.

Sarah shared some thoughts on the proper use of puns.

This show is Stacy's fault. Sarah has a lot going on and is about to travel, so Stacy decided to take the reins.

Stacy and Sarah are both going to share about what they have going on, and things that are going on in the world that is interesting and fun to explore.

It is almost like rapid-fire, but The Paleo View style banter that is not at all fast.


Sarah's Updates

Sarah is leaving for San Francisco the morning after this episode is recorded, and by the time this show airs she will be back home.

She will be giving a public lecture on the gut microbiome for Cider Health Care Systems Institute of Health and Healing.

Sarah thinks she overcommitted with her travel itinerary this year.

At the start of 2020, Sarah is also doing a three-day workshop in San Jose, CA in February.

In the midst of this all, Sarah is still trying to wrap up her Gut Microbiome book.

There are still some tickets left for the San Jose workshop, so if you are interested, you can purchase those here.

This will be the last trip Sarah will plan for awhile.

Eventually, when the book releases, there will be a book tour, with very limited stops.

The next section of the AIP lecture series is coming up in March, but Sarah wants to make time for even more projects that excite her.

Even though Sarah loves public speaking, it is not a smart use of her time right now.

Stacy stressed the importance that we all need to prioritize the things that make us feel our best.

It was a difficult decision for Sarah to make to not attend Paleo Fx in 2020.

Sarah shared the way that she got crystal clear about her expectations and goals, and is aligning with those.

For the first time in a long time, Sarah feels optimistic about the way she is structuring her time.

Stacy feels like healthy living is all about constant reevaluations. It is a process of constant learning and evolution.


Stacy's Updates

For today's 'did you know' episode Stacy is going to share on a new bill for preventing greenwashing on personal care products.

Stacy referred to this previous podcast episode when they discussed personal product care safety act.

Stacy recently went to California for more training on this, as this is her full-time job.

She specifically works with BeautyCounter, but she also works with a lot of other brands who are things safer.

If you have any questions about all of that stuff, this is where Stacy has gone with her lifestyle and her expanding journey.

If you want to try safer samples or anything, Stacy does offer those.

Just send Stacy an email at and put in the subject, 'BeautyCounter sample'.

Be sure to include details on what you are currently using and what your goals are.

Stacy loves to troubleshoot with people both on skincare and lifestyle.

Sarah and Stacy discussed their love for the Overnight Resurfacing Peel, which you can still get for free in the month of November.

If you are loving BeautyCounter, there is a half-price enrollment special through the 17th.

Sarah's birthday will be taking place when this show airs.

In honor of her recent 8th blogiversary celebration, Sarah wrote a post about her personal journey as a blogger.

Sarah reflected on the journey Stacy and Sarah have been on together since this podcast launched.

They have both been able to find their voices in the community and the change they want to affect in the world.

One of the things that amaze Sarah about Stacy's journey is that she has been able to channel her passion for healthy living in a way that impacts people whether they are Paleo or not.

The work Stacy is doing is not just about BeautyCounter, it is about the regulations that go into personal care products.

It has been a journey for Stacy.


The Personal Care Product Industry

Stacy does want to take a moment to discuss where the personal care industry is.

People have this idea that natural is safe.

Stacy has been diving into the science and explanation for years now so that she could be a leading voice in the personal care products conversation.

This second bill won't go to committee until they want to spend the resources for a committee to look into it.

The Personal Care Safety Product Act has some interesting components to it and Stacy shared more on why companies are lobbying hard around this one.

Stacy thinks the Natural Cosmetics Act will go through faster, even though the other one has been around longer.

The second one only seeks to define what terms mean.

This one is sponsored by representative Sean Maloney from New York.

Stacy read a press release more on this act, which you can read in full here.

Sarah and Stacy discussed their concerns around the way in which we breathe in and absorb (through the skin) the toxic ingredients in the products we use.

Stacy's passion is to educate people on the reality that you cannot trust the labels you read.

What you can do is scan products in your own house, or products you are considering buying, using the app EWG.

If these bills go through, it is a lot less of a burden to the consumer since you won't have to do all this research.

The Personal Care Product Safety Act's goal is to strengthen human health by testing the ingredients.

If you are interested in asking your representatives to support either of these bipartisan bills, BeautyCounter has created a textbot to help you do this.

Text 'BETTERBEAUTY' to 528886.


The Clean Fifteen & Dirty Dozen

Stacy asked Sarah if she knew that the Dirty Dozen and Clean Fifteen changes every year.

Sarah noted that these lists also look at trends and the types of foods that make it onto the list frequently.

EWG does a great job of empowering people with knowledge.

Sarah feels that they have a balanced approach to their feedback and recommendations.

This year's clean fifteen includes: Avocados, Sweet Corn, Pineapple, Sweet Peas frozen, onions, papaya, eggplants, asparagus, kiwis, cauliflower, cantaloupes, broccoli, mushrooms, honeydew melon

This year's dirty dozen includes: strawberries, spinach, kale, nectarines, apples, grapes, peaches, cherries, pears, tomatoes, celery, potato, + hot peppers

Just because something isn't classified as organic, it doesn't mean that the farmer didn't use a variation of safety practices.

Be sure to ask your local farmers about their practices.



Did you know that there is now an EWG verified perfume?

The company is called Henry Rose.

There are five perfumes and they are fragrance-free.


Solar Panels

Did you know that there is a 30% tax credit for the installation of solar power on your home?

Sarah did know this because her family has been going through a big shift at home to swap to more earth-friendly practices.

Sarah does want to make the switch, but the timing isn't right for her household just yet.

Matt has been doing the research on this as they prepare to move to a new house.

Switching to solar will save you $400 per kilowatt per year; an average 5KW system will save a homeowner $2000/year. 

Sarah and her husband are looking at possibly moving, so they aren't sure if investing in the solar panels makes the most sense.

Stacy referred listeners to this podcast episode for more information on Sarah and Stacy's earth-friendly practices.


Climate Trends

Stacy asked Sarah if she knew that September 2019 was earth's hottest month ever, specifically North Ameria.

On July 31, Greenland lost eleven billion tons of ice.

A lot of this goes back to why Stacy and Sarah make the choices they do, with the goal to lower their carbon footprint.

Sarah's family has the mantra, 'but the planet' and she shared on how this mindset has impacted her lifestyle and family's choices.

Branch Basics is a product that Stacy and Sarah both cannot say enough good things about.

You can use the code 'ThePaleoView' to get 20% off your Branch Basics set orders.


Black Friday

A lot of Stacy and Sarah's favorite brands will be running Black Friday sales, and they will be telling people all about their favorites.

Simply subscribe to their newsletters to catch those details.

Stacy is offering an exclusive special that only she is offering with BeautyCounter.

To subscribe to Sarah's, visit this link.

To subscribe to Stacy's, visit this link.


Family-Friendly Shows

Did you know that there are a lot of family-friendly shows that help educate about topics like food, health and more?

Below is a list of Stacy's recommended shows:

Planet Earth, Netflix

Rotten, Netflix

Explained, Netflix

Diagnosis, Netflix

Food, Delicious Science, Netflix

The Paleo Way, Netflix

Final Table, Netflix

Nile Red, YouTube


Queer Eye

Great British Baking Show


Closing Thoughts

Stacy and Sarah hope you enjoyed this week's episode.

If you have suggested topics or questions please be sure to do that by using the contact forms on both Stacy and Sarah's sites.

Stacy wants Sarah to cover one of her questions - why do we not feel good after we travel?

Again, Stacy and Sarah love hearing from you, so don't hesitate to reach out!

The contact forms on the site are the best ways to touch base, but social media works if you need to use those channels instead.

Thanks for listening - Stacy and Sarah will be back next week!

Welcome back, listeners. (0:40)

Stacy has some good news to share.

Wesley is no longer vegan.

He lasted three days, and Stacy is super proud of him pursuing something he was interested in trying.

Stacy wanted to give a special shout out to the vegan podcast listeners who reached out and were super helpful and supportive.

Stacy shared more on Wesley's experiment, how he brought it to a close, and why.

This week Stacy and Sarah are going to go in a completely different direction.

Sarah wanted to revisit the autoimmune protocol as a dedicated topic for a few reasons.

It is exciting for Sarah to see the way that AIP is evolving. However, there are some things happening that are misrepresenting what AIP is.


A Preview Into this Episode

In this week's show, Sarah wants to revisit what AIP is and summarize it's main principles. She also wants to address some of the most common misconceptions. (11:46)

The autoimmune protocol is a very comprehensive protocol, and every facet is backed up by a huge body of scientific literature.

It is important for Sarah to understand the why's behind which foods to eat, and which foods to eliminate, and the lifestyle priorities in order to personalize AIP and use it effectively.

This week's episode is going to be very much a summary of what the autoimmune protocol is and what it isn't.

Stacy has been excited to see the way that AIP has moved outside of the Paleo community and has reached more people, providing help to those who need it.

However, Stacy recognizes where the trouble lies with the misconceptions that have also spread as the popularity of AIP has grown.

There are some cases where AIP is being used as a form of disordered eating.

Stacy reminded listeners that AIP is not intended to be a life sentence.

For some people, there may be foods that you can never add back.

There are people who use AIP for a set amount of time and fully hit their health goals and reintroduce with success.

Stacy and Sarah want AIP to be a mechanism for people to reach the next level in their health, but to not cause stress in the process.


The Three Phases

The AIP is actually three phases, which have been outlined on Sarah's site here. (19:09)

The first phase is the elimination phase, but Sarah really thinks of this as the nutrient density phase.

Placing a positive focus on what to eat is an important way to practice a positive mindset.

Sarah has always resisted putting a timeframe on the elimination phase because different people have different barriers to overcome.

Food needs to be eliminated for at least two weeks for the elimination process to be effective in showing food intolerances.

In the AIP lecture series, Sarah teaches that if you aren't seeing any changes within three months during the elimination phase, there is more to look into beyond diet.

Refer to this do's and don'ts post on Sarah's site for more tips and tricks.

The reintroduction phase is important for a number of reasons.

The elimination phase of the AIP is a challenge outside of the home, and reintroductions allow expansions on the diet, which makes practical challenges navigatable.

There are some nutrients that you have to be aware of so that you make sure you are getting all the nutrients you need during the elimination phase.

So reintroduction can make the diet higher quality when those nutrient-dense foods that were eliminated are actually tolerated.

The foods that are eliminated on the AIP are not going to be a problem for everybody.

Autoimmune disease is a spectrum.

Other than celiac and gluten, there are not defined food triggers.

For most autoimmune diseases it is a confluence of events. (28:18)

This is why the AIP is this very comprehensive approach because it is trying to tackle a large number of things.

Reintroduction allows you to identify how different foods make you feel and if/when/how to include them (or not) into your diet.

One of the things that happen during the reintroduction phase is that you are learning about your body and you are personalizing the AIP to your body's requirements and tolerance.

After that second phase, you reach the third phase, known as the maintenance phase.

Dropping the dogma of good food and bad food allows you to hone in on an individual approach that is really only possible after going through this methodical and personal journey.

The troubleshooting that happens during this process is also hugely informative.

If you aren't seeing changes by that three-month mark find a functional medicine specialist and start digging deeper because there are other things that could be going on.

There is a learning environment that comes with the autoimmune protocol.

This is why Sarah likes to think about it as a toolkit; it provides you with a knowledge base.

This is a very empowering journey!


The AIP Bullet Points

The AIP is based on a huge body of scientific evidence that supports each facet.

High vegetable consumption is super important.

Organ meat and seafood are the most nutrient-dense foods available.

Balanced macros are really important for hormone regulation and immune regulation.

That the foods being eaten are really important for gut health, but so are the lifestyle factors.

Regulating the immune system is not just about regulating the immune cellular function, it is about taking care of all of the inputs to gut health.

The AIP embraces functional medicine and treatments backed by science.

The goal is to combine all of the best tools that are backed by science, in a personal way to best effect our individual health.

The sense of empowerment really hit home for Stacy and she shared more on why. (37:01)

Stacy shared more on her lifestyle and how and why she has tailored it to her personal needs in the way that she has.

Learning to understand her triggers was a viral part of Stacy's journey.

Knowing where her triggers lie allows Stacy to live her life to the fullest, and it is truly worth it.


The Mindset Aspect

You do have the room to make choices personal to you and your needs.

Sarah shared more on how this would work, using the example of coffee.

Get into the why's behind what to eat and what not to eat because this knowledge allows you to see what trades you can make to maintain a healthier mindset during your elimination phase.

Learning to see AIP within the context of the bigger picture, allows you to truly understand your body with the goal of lifelong health at the forefront of your journey.

The resources Sarah referred listeners to: the AIP lecture series, The Paleo Approach book, The Autoimmune Book protocol eBook, autoimmune protocol start here page.

Sarah noted that you can also work one-on-one with an AIP certified coach or join a group coaching program.

The biggest mindset challenges can be easily overcome with knowledge.

Stacy reminded listeners that food can make you feel bad, but the food is not bad. And you are not bad for making a choice.

These are things that Stacy didn't understand years ago. It took her time to develop a healthy mindset, as she use to think that weight loss was health.

Understanding an autoimmune condition and learning to nourish your body and live a lifestyle that helps you feel its best, is really the best way to change the way that you think about health.


Is the AIP for everyone?

You can use the same structure without doing all of the eliminations. (52:41)

If you don't have an autoimmune disease, you can still do this same health approach within a Paleo template.

You could follow a standard Paleo approach and then test your tolerance to the possibly problematic foods, such as dairy.

There are a lot of people who have been a part of the Paleo community for a long time, eating a nutrient-focused, gluten-free diet.

You can adapt the structure of the healing journey to be in a different starting place and to have a different health goal.

You would still use the same overall idea behind a challenge and a reintroduction, with the goal of understanding your body.


Common Misconceptions

Myth: There is no science to support this way of life. 

Fact: Sarah cited 1200 studies when writing The Paleo Approach.

There have been 600 to 800 more studies that have come into various writings on Sarah's website.

There are also now some clinical studies that are looking at IBS and Hashimotos Thyroiditis.

In addition, there is an ongoing study right now on eczema and psoriasis.

There is no aspect of the autoimmune protocol that is not solidly rooted in scientific evidence.

Sarah approaches every recommendation she makes in scientific research.

Stacy referred listeners to this podcast episode where this was discussed in greater detail.


 Myth: If I do AIP, it is going to solve all my problems.

No. You simply can't cure everything with diet and lifestyle alone.

There are situations where you need doctors, medicine, surgeries, supplements, therapies, etc.

AIP is a toolbox. It is a collection of best practices.

Sarah will take thyroid hormone replacement for her entire life. And this is not her failure or a failure of AIP.


Myth: It's just a diet. (1:00:14)

The dietary aspect is where people come into AIP.

It is easy to ignore the lifestyle aspects, but these are critical components.

When we get fixated on the dietary piece, it is easy to lose sight of the lifestyle pieces.


Myth: If I am doing all the things, I don't need medical intervention. 

This might be true for some people, but not true for all people.

There are going to be things that diet and lifestyle alone will not address.

Sarah would refer these people back to this podcast episode as both of these approaches will help you dig deeper into the healing protocol.

It is not just important to see your doctor, but to also tell them what you are doing.

If you are toying with supplements or hoping to go off medications, it is important to work with a medical professional you trust.


Myth: It causes food sensitivities.

Sarah explained how the reaction was always there, and understands how frustrating this can be.

It is inconvenient to discover you have a food sensitivity.

However, there is a lot of empowerment that comes from that knowledge.

It may feel that way because of the unmasking of a reaction that has always been there before, but physiologically that is not how it works. 

Refer to this podcast episode for more information on this topic. 


Myth: AIP is a very limiting diet. 

There are examples of people who keep it very limited due to food phobia. 

Stacy has seen people do this when people combine AIP with low-carb. 

Sarah noted that if you are combining protocols you need to be aware of how to get sufficient nutrients, and should probably be working with an AIP certified coach or functional medicine practitioner. 

If you are giving up a lot of foods that you typically eat, it can feel like there is nothing left to eat. 

Sarah approaches this by teaching people about the food variety people have to choose from, because variety is actually a big part of the AIP. 

The mindset aspect that comes with seeking the abundance as opposed to focusing on the eliminations. 

The food lists that Sarah has in her books has a few thousand options listed. 

It does require trying a lot of new foods, finding different places to shop, learning to cook with new foods, but these are different challenges than a diet being too restrictive. 


Closing Thoughts

The AIP is not a very restrictive diet.

It has eliminations, which might be more than you have ever tried before, but it incorporates a huge variety of foods and promotes variety within the template. 

There are so many options that are AIP complaint for you if you don't want to make your own foods.

There are more AIP friendly food options available now today than ever before.

Stacy and Sarah appreciate you the listeners for being here for this episode. 

Please go leave a review on the show, in whatever platform you are listening to it in.

Thank you so much for being here and for supporting this show! (1:17:25)

Welcome back to The Paleo View listeners. (0:40)

We have an interesting episode for you this week friends.

Stacy's nine-year-old is rebelling like a teenager.

Cole is pretty cool as teenagers go. Stacy enjoys his sarcasm and dry humor.

Finnian was recently described by his teacher as gregarious.

Stacy's baby, Wesley, has a bleeding heart and is very aware of his impact on his community and the world.

He has been passionate for years about consuming meat, which is an interesting topic for Stacy.

Stacy was vegetarian for seven years before she went to college, but she has changed her tune on that.

She now does a lot of educating and sharing about humanely and sustainably raised animals and how important this is to their family.

Wesley has talked about going vegetarian a couple of times but has decided against it until recently.

Recently Wesley saw something on YouTube that inspired him to make the move and go vegan for at least seven days.

Pescatarian is always the route that Stacy has suggested. However, Wesley wanted to go full-on vegan.

From sharing about this challenge on social media, Stacy has heard from so many people that their children also experiment with this.

It has always been Stacy's approach that children are their own people and they make their own decisions.

As much as this feels like a complete rebellion against everything Matt and Stacy believe, they do want to support that this is something he has thought about for a long time.

Matt and Stacy decided to support him in this challenge, but they also saw it as an educational opportunity.

Sarah commented on how Matt and Stacy empower their children with their choices.


Educational Opportunity

The first thing they educated Wes on was protein, using a graphic from Robb Wolf's Instagram. (7:44)

They are also discussing micronutrients and what he is missing in a vegan diet.

Wesley is their Paleo baby. He has never had standard American foods, outside of gluten-free treats.

He is following both a gluten-free and vegan food plan right now. Stacy is also avoiding soy and filler junk foods.

They did find a lentil-based burger for Wes, but it was very hard to avoid canola oil in products.

Sarah shared on Canola oil and the history of this product on the food market.

Stacy shared a bit more on the foods they have found for Wes and what he has liked.

What Sarah wants to add to this conversation is about the fat options available to you in a vegan diet. (14:32)

The vegan community has done messaging very well, in terms of how they have distributed their arguments for their choices.

Sarah does agree with the information shared on how negatively impactful the meat, dairy, and processed carbohydrate-heavy the average American diet is.

A big part of the conversation needs to be on how important vegetables are, and how important it is to modify protein intake.

There are nutrients that we get from animal foods that we cannot get from plant foods, and vice versa.

Sarah thinks of Paleo as a plant-based diet.

The only way to meet our nutrient needs is to consume from both categories of food.

Sarah referred to these resources for omnivore education.

We need nutrients from both plants and from animals.

There are plenty of nutrients that you can get sufficiently by either going vegan or carnivore. However, in either extreme, there is a group of nutrients you are missing out on.

Sarah's views this as an opportunity to talk to the flip side of the coin.


The Nutritional Gap

There are nutrients that we get from animal foods that we either cannot get from plant foods, or we can only get from a very limited list of unusual plant foods. (18:01)

In these cases, it is hard to get sufficient quantities of these nutrients.

The nutrients that we could be missing out on including heme iron, the animal form of vitamin A, zinc, vitamin B12, vitamin K2, vitamin D3, CLA, DHA, EPA, creatine, taurine, carnitine, and selenium. 

Sarah shared a bit about the various ways you can supplement your vegan diet to fill some of these nutrient misses.

Protein requirements are an additional challenge on a Vegan diet because plants are not a source of complete protein.

Complete protein refers to a food that contains all nine essential amino acids.

One of the things that is a trick is looking at combining foods in order to get all of those essential amino acids.

The classic mixing is to mix a grain and a legume to get all nine essential amino acids.

It is really hard from plant-based sources to get enough leucine.

Thre is a careful selection of food that can help round out the amino acid intake, but the other typical recommendation is that vegans need to consume more plant proteins to simply get enough protein.


Protein Absorption

There is this whole other side of the protein challenge for vegans and vegetarians, which is the digestible indispensable amino acid score.

Our digestive enzymes are not very great at breaking down plant proteins.

There is a score that looks at how much of the protein is wasted through the digestive tract.

The scores range from 0, which is completely non-digestible, to 1, which is considered fully digestible.

There are some animal foods that score higher than 1 though.

For example, beef is 1.1, chicken is 1.08, fish is 1.

This means that in an average human digestive tract, the protein is 100% digested.

Tofu has a score of 0.52, kidney beans have a score of 0.51, peanuts have a score of 0.43.

Plant-based proteins, at best, half of the protein is fully digested in the digestive tract.

If you are active, trying to build muscle or trying to lose weight, all of these things increase your protein requirements.

Your health goals are more easy to achieve with higher protein intake.

Sarah personally aims for about 2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, per day, spread out amongst three meals. (32:49)

Getting this amount of protein is fairly straightforward, using dense protein sources.

However, in the context of plant-based proteins, you have to consume a lot of food to fulfill your protein requirements.

On top of that, you still have to supplement to hit your micronutrient needs.

The main takeaway is that humans are omnivores and there are nutrients that we get from animal foods, that we can't get from plant foods.

That doesn't mean that we need to eat a ton of animal foods to meet our nutritional needs.

Like Stacy was saying at the start of the show, you can get these nutrients from a pescatarian diet.

Sarah sees pescatarian as a really good compromise.

You would need to eat shellfish.


Long-Term Effects & Impacts

In the absence of animal food, it is basically impossible to achieve nutrient sufficiency, even with supplements.

There is not a good idea of what happens when you don't get enough creatine over the course of your life.

We understand the consequences of many micronutrient deficiencies, but we don't fully know the longterm impacts of amino acid deficiencies.

The term non-essential is very misleading.

Sarah tries to respectfully explain the need for nutrients in the context of a modest serving of an animal food, and lots and lots of vegetables, fruits, nuts, and seeds.

We can incorporate that with a focus on humanely raised meats.

Returning to a decentralized food manufacturer system is a great way to balance the global environmental impact of raising meat, by recognizing the human nutritional needs to animal foods.

Stacy shared more on why this point is so important to her, and ultimately inspired Matt and Stacy to write Beyond Bacon.

The importance of respecting an animal's life and the kingdom of life is a very important piece of this dietary puzzle.

The importance of the work that Diana Rodgers is doing.

Sarah shared information on salmon migration and hatchery programs.

This is just one great example of how measures are being taken to both cares for the environment and the animal kingdom.

Thinking of an animal at the end of its life cycle, which is the ideal time to harvest it.


Supporting Others Choices

The important part for Stacy is that all of these topics hit on the points of discussion she is having with Wesley.

No matter what age a child is, Stacy thinks that the idea and the popularity of vegan/vegetarianism, is not just something that is cool, but also because there is compassion.

If this is how someone feels, there are other things that we can think about to bridge the gap between how someone feels and respecting our own health.

Stacy is empowering and supporting Wes and shared on why she feels it is important to encourage this experimentation while he is under her roof.

While Stacy started as a vegan when Matt and Stacy first started dating, they both educated each other and met in the middle.

Stacy's brother grew up a vegetarian but became a vegan when he went away to college.

Stacy also shared on the work that her brother is doing to reduce food waste.


Adding in Probiotics

One of the things Stacy has been focusing on with Wesley is adding in probiotics. (57:02)

Stacy shared the gluten-free and vegan supplements that Wesley is taking during his 7-day challenge.

Wesley's gut health is strong and is able to take on this dietary modification. 

Stacy shared an update on the first three days of Wes's challenge. 

She thinks that he isn't experiencing as much digestive distress as expected because of the probiotics he is taking

Wesley is taking his Thrive probiotics in the morning, and also having a Forager smoothie.

Matt and Stacy have never been diligent about the kids taking probiotics, but for Wes this has changed. 

Sarah shared science on the role of animal products on the gut microbiome.

While writing her new book, Sarah was most interested in writing about what is good for the gut microbiome. It is not a Paleo book. 

It has been fascinating to Sarah to dig into this research beyond bacterial strains. 

She has found another argument for omnivorism through her research. 

There is this additional effect of dietary changes on the gut microbiome that depending on what the diet is, might be beneficial or might not be. 

In the context of a diet that is missing something important for the gut microbiome, like veganism, supplementing with probiotics makes a whole lot of sense.

Stacy shared why Thrive probiotics, in particular, is her brand of choice. 


Closing Thoughts

Stacy shared her latest happy moment in her food preparation for Wes's vegan meals. (1:08:40)

Gluten-free vegan is a really hard diet to follow, as options are really limited. 

Just because Wes wants to experiment with a vegan diet, there are certain household rules that Matt and Stacy are not flexing for him. 

Stacy shared some additional food ideas that she has come across in prep for Wes's 7-day challenge. 

There is a highlight bubble on Stacy's Instagram account with these ideas listed if you are interested. 

Sarah hopes that this conversation helped other parents who are in similar situations. 

Listeners can save 15% on Thrive probiotics by using the code 'PaleoView15' by visiting this link.

Sarah is looking forward to an update on the Wes-vegan phase next week.

Thank you so much listeners! Please don't forget to share this with your community and to leave a review!

Stacy and Sarah love it when you engage with them on social media.

Your hosts will be back again next week! (1:16:08)

Episode 375: PCOS

Welcome back to The Paleo View - episode 375. (0:40)

First, Stacy and Sarah would like to thank this week's episode sponsor, Joovv.

If you haven't yet heard about why Stacy and Sarah love this tool, check out this podcast episode that covers all the benefits of red light therapy.

Joovv's buildability Lego-like structure makes it really easy for you to get the size that is right for you now, and expand your red light therapy later down the road if you would like to.

For more information visit this link.

This week's episode was inspired by a question from Molli on the topic of PCOS.

First, before Sarah dives in, Stacy wanted to give a shoutout to Molli who is an active and engaged follower on social media.

Stacy wants to also encourage other listeners to use these channels as a way to submit questions.


Molli's Question

Molli aks: I was recently diagnosed with PCOS and have been told I need to adapt to a low carb diet due to insulin resistance. (4:44)

However, with the research you guys have presented about the benefits of healthy carbs for the gut microbiome I’m not sure what the best route is to take.

Is there is any research on other things I can do to help my body regulate its cycles and begin to ovulate?

There is just so much information out there about PCOS it’s hard to know what is accurate, and I trust your insights!

First, Stacy wants to note that hormone regulation, in general, has been covered on this show a lot in different lifestyle aspects.

So when it comes to things like sleep, stress, sunlight, movement, hormone-disrupting products from your life, be mindful of how all these aspects impact hormone regulation.

Molli, if the only thing a doctor is telling you is to go low-carb you might want to look around for another doctor who can help with the lifestyle suggestions.

Things like meditation, red light therapy, and yoga can have a lot of benefits as well.


About PCOS

PCOS is incredibly common.

There are estimates that up to 6 to 10% of women of reproductive age have PCOS.

It is a condition that is considered a genetic condition that is triggered and worsened by weight gain and insulin resistance.

PCOS triggers a vicious cycle because the insulin resistance and weight gain exaggerate the excess hormones that are being produced.

The excess hormones make it really hard to lose weight, and gaining weight and having more insulin resistance skews the hormones.

One thing Sarah wanted to note is that you don't have to be overweight to be insulin resistant.

So this essentially means that PCOS has two key features.

The key features are insulin resistance and hyperandrogenism.

These two features are what drive the various symptoms.

So the symptoms fall into a few different categories.

The main ones are menstrual cycle symptoms, infertility, inappropriate male features, skin issues, weight regulation challenges, and mental health issues.

Different women experience symptoms of PCOS differently.

Just in the last few years, PCOS has been recognized as a genetic condition. (15:34)

PCOS is similar to autoimmune disease in the sense that there is a collection of risk genes, but it requires an environmental trigger to be turned on.

It is the combination of these genetic risk genes with insulin resistance or weight gain that starts this vicious cycle.

And once you are in this vicious cycle it can be very hard to step out of it.


The Larger Impacts of PCOS

Having PCOS increases the risk of metabolic syndrome, developing type-2 diabetes, having high cholesterol that leads to cardiovascular disease, developing non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, and an increased risk of obstructed sleep apnea.

The root things that are going on in PCOS are also causing these other conditions to develop.

However, these conditions develop over a longer time scale.

Sarah noted that you will often see type-2 diabetes diagnosis and PCOS diagnosis go hand in hand.

Stacy noted that she feels like there is a lot of shame around conditions that can be contributed to obesity.

As a reminder, there are women who are not overweight who have PCOS.

There are a variety of health conditions that come whether or not you are overweight.

When we assign shame or guilt or negativity with a health condition it doesn't help solve the problem.

There have been a variety of studies showing that if you can address your insulin sensitivity and blood sugar regulation, it can help reduce the hormones.

It has been confirmed through scientific evidence that obesity is not directly tied to what your insulin is doing, and low-carb diets do not provide any specific benefit to weight loss beyond calorie reduction.

However, there is still this aspect to diet culture that the way to lose weight is low carb. (23:39)

So if you have diabetes there is an assumption that the solution is low carb.

Sarah wants to refer listeners back to the insulin podcast episode.

As covered in that episode, there are many different effects that insulin has on the body that are not related to glucose metabolism.

It is probably more important to dial in lifestyle factors when it comes to restoring insulin sensitivity and reversing insulin resistance.


Diets & PCOS

Keto studies are using under 30 to 50 grams of carbohydrates for their measurements.

Low carb studies are using 50 to 150 grams of carbohydrates for their measurements.

There have also been studies that have looked at the Mediterranean diet, adding in protein, supplementing with fiber, using olive oil and more.

There was a meta-analysis that found 28 studies that were diet interventions for PCOS.

They said that there were 22 of those studies had such poor study design that they could not be included, which is incredibly unusual.

For the meta-analysis, they were able to pull the 6 studies and collect valuable data.

They found that there were subtle differences between the different intervention diets.

The style of diets that were observed were a Mediterranean style, low glycemic index, high and low carb diets, and a high protein diet.

They were able to show that the Mediterranean style diet resulted in greater weight loss.

There was improved menstrual regularity with a low glycemic index diet.

The free androgen index was best under a high carb diet.

Insulin resistance was better improved under both low carb and low glycemic index diet.

The best quality of life scores came from a low glycemic index diet.

Mental health scores were best improved with high protein diets.

Basically, all of the different dietary interventions that were tested in rigorous well-designed studies showed benefits to some piece of PCOS.

When women lost weight, all the different things going on with PCOS were improved.

If they didn't lose as much weight, there wasn't as much improvement.

This is a really important thing because it de-emphasizes the importance of insulin resistance compared to weight loss.

In these studies, they showed that normalizing weight is more powerful than what the actually dietary composition is.

It is far more important to eat a healthy diet than it is to manipulate macros to achieve some kind of magic insulin level.


The Role of Keto on PCOS

There has been one study that tested keto for PCOS. (39:00)

Sarah doesn't actually recommend keto to anyone outside of its therapeutic use in two situations.

The study was published in 2005, no follow-up studies have ever been published.

It recruited 11 women, 6 of them dropped out of the study.

This is fairly predictable in a Keto study because of the way this diet impacts the quality of life.

To read more about these impacts, check out this post from Sarah's site.

Keto is a diet that overtly manipulates sex hormones because of its role in what insulin is doing and not to the benefit of most people.


Red Light Therapy & Infrared Light Therapy

One of the benefits of red and infrared light therapy is that it increases ATP production in our cells.

This improvement with our cellular health has a lot of downstream effects.

It has actually been used in fertility studies.

There was a study that came out of Japan with a little over 300 women in the study who all failed out of IVF treatments due to infertility issues.

They did a treatment similar to what Joovv delivers but at different wavelengths.

The study found that just by doing the infrared light therapy, about 20% of the women got pregnant.

Sarah noted that this is by no means a magic cure-all.

There was still a fairly high miscarriage rate in this study; upwards of 50%.

There have been more mechanistic studies done in animals with red and infrared wavelengths showing that shows improvement in infertility.

Sarah finds it very cool to see this information.

The studies behind this show the impact of improving cellular health and how that can translate to regulating hormones and improving ovary health.

Again, this isn't being presented as a cure-all, but this is exciting research.

No one has done a study combining a nutrient-dense diet with lifestyle factors, throwing in some red light, and seeing what the formula produces.


Coming Full Circle

There is no compelling reason to be doing a low carb or ketogenic diet for regulating hormones or reducing insulin resistance in PCOS. (46:31)

The scientific study, when you look at it as a whole, points to a healthy diet is the way to go and that lifestyle is really important.

Sarah noted that there is some interesting science showing that insulin sensitivity is far more closely tied to our lifestyle factors than anything having to do with our diet.

She also feels like this isn't adequately addressed in doctors' offices.

Sarah shared more on the findings from various lifestyle factor studies.

We know that stress by itself can cause hormonal dysregulation, which can look a lot like PCOS.

There are multiple direct lines that point from lifestyle factors to PCOS.

Diet is still important, but regulating insulin is not something we can accomplish without addressing the lifestyle inputs to insulin regulation.

Addressing the lifestyle inputs is actually going to give us a much better bang for our buck than anything having to do with diet.

Stacy noted that Molli was spot on in identifying and knowing that gut health ties into this.

Shout out to Molli for understanding and following her instincts on this one.

As Stacy said, she would seek out someone who has a more well-rounded understanding of how these lifestyle factors will also play in.

There are medical professionals out there who can guide you, and Stacy highly recommends it based on how she has seen these lifestyle factors impact her friend's health and symptoms around PCOS.

This is a more common health condition than most people realize.

Molli's question was triggered by this recent podcast episode. (55:47)

Reminder, we need to be careful not to go too low carb.

There is still a compelling reason to be adopting a nutrient-focused Paleo diet with PCOS, which is a balanced macros.

This is because this is an optimal diet for the gut microbiome.

We are on the cusp of understanding PCOS and its link to our environment in much more detail.

However, there is enough information there to put together a comprehensive and holistic template that would include a nutrient focused diet.

To also dial in stress, sleep and activity, and incorporating a functional medicine practitioner.

Stacy reminded listeners, that if you are interested in checking out more on this episode's sponsor, please visit Joovv's site here for more details.

Thanks for listening, and please keep those questions coming. 

As always, Stacy and Sarah always appreciate your reviews, as well as your shares with friends and family.

Stacy and Sarah will be back again next week! (1:05:09)

Hey listeners! It's episode 374, and the middle of October. (0:41)

Stacy and Sarah are here to talk about Thanksgiving.

Yes, Halloween hasn't happened yet, but this year don't put off planning.

Stacy sent out Thanksgiving invitations to her guests two weeks ago.

Before Stacy and Sarah dive into this episode, a shout out to this week's sponsor.

Butcher Box is very relevant to this episode, but Sarah could share on her love of Butcher Box anytime.

They deliver grass-fed beef, heritage breed pasture-raised pork, as well as organic chicken.

Everything is non-GMO verified, hormone-free, it's all top quality and it is delivered right to your door on a subscription basis.

With Butcher Box, you can either build your own box or have them pick and assemble a box based on what is in supply.

Sarah has add-on's thrown into her box, based on monthly price specials.

Butcher Box has awesome pastured turkey.

Stacy ordered both Butcher Box's ham and turkey last year and cannot recommend them enough.

If are you listening before November 17, 2019, new subscribers can receive a whole turkey in their first box. This is a huge value!

After November 17, 2019, new subscribers to Butcher Box can redeem an offer for $15 off + free bacon. 

No code required. Just use this link:


The Turkey

Stacy and Sarah have a bunch of questions from social media on the subject of Thanksgiving. (6:33)

They are going to rapid-fire Q&A these, and set the Thanksgiving spirit.

First question, how do you each cook your turkeys?

Stacy and Matt actually cook more than one turkey because they have a lot of guests.

Hosting is kind of Matt and Stacy's thing, so know that her responses are more for large gatherings as opposed to groups of 6.

Stacy's sister gets a free turkey through work every year, which she gives to Matt and Stacy. This turkey is typically fried.

The turkey that Matt and Stacy purchase via Butcher Box is roasted.

Turkey, in particular, is really susceptible to terribly raised farming practices if you are not buying humanely, sustainably raised turkey.

For many farmers, turkey is a commodity with a high demand once a year.

Turkeys are often fed the worst food so that they are fattened up quickly.

We as consumers tell the market what we want. If more of us purchase sustainably raised turkeys, it tells the farmers that it is worth their time and money.

Stacy and Matt wrote a book called Beyond Bacon that covers the importance of eating nose to tail, so this is a topic that really matters to her and is relevant to all the animals we consume.

They do brine the turkey that they roast, and the one that is fried does not get a brine.

Sarah has smoked a turkey before, which she did brine first.

Since a turkey is typically between 10 to 30 pounds, she feels like there is an intimidation factor to it.

However, it is actually really no more challenging than roasting a chicken.

If you are cooking it without stuffing, it is actually really straightforward.

Most of Sarah's work that goes into cooking any Thanksgiving dinner is centered on the sides, the turkey is the most hands-off part of the menu.

When deep-frying a turkey, you want to be comfortable around a fryer and know what to expect.

Roasting a turkey though is so straightforward.

Put something flavorful on the skin, even if it is just salt, put it in the oven and cook for twenty minutes per pound.

A pastured turkey can cook in as little as fifteen minutes per pound.

Sarah suggests throwing in a meat thermometer so that you know when it is perfectly cooked.

Stacy emphasized the importance of a meat thermometer, and you can even purchase a basic one.

You want to put the thermometer in the breast of the turkey and not up against the bone.

Sarah puts stuffing in her bird, Stacy does not.

Matt and Stacy make a side for their stuffing, as they do have a vegan guest at their Thanksgiving and make those accommodations in their menu.


The Sides

Matt and Stacy are able to make a lot of things vegan-friendly. (15:48)

They make a pork-based stuffing that they really like, and then they make a separate stuffing that is bready based, using a vegan bread and vegetable stock.

The pork-based stuffing recipe can be found here.

Sarah makes her mom's stuffing recipe using chopped green plantain in place of bread crumbs. The greener the plantain, the better.

Stuffing is prepped in the bird, dressing is prepped outside of the bird. Matt and Stacy make a dressing.

Question two, what are your go-to sides? 

Stacy asks each of her guests what is one dish they would like at their Thanksgiving feast.

Matt and Stacy structure it so that partners get one request, as opposed to two requests.

Their roasted vegetable platter, drizzled with balsamic over top, is one of the most popular dishes they make.

This is a point of pride for Stacy, that her family comes requesting vegetables.

The recipe for this vegetable platter can be found here.

Stacy has a lot of family members who are not gluten-free, so she usually purchases gluten-free bread options for them from a bakery so that she doesn't have to worry about that.

There are always lots of desserty requests.

They often buy their pies from a bakery, and then make Sarah's pumpkin pie recipe as a custard.

Green bean casserole is another favorite.

Matt and Stacy's trick to their sweet potato casserole is to roast pineapples and bananas and then blend those in with the sweet potato.

Last year Stacy fell in love with Smashmallow and used their Cinnamon Churro to top their casserole.

Sarah is going to try it this year with Sweet Apricity's Pumpkin Spice Marshmallow.

On her website, Sarah has a recipe for an eggplant and wild mushroom-based stuffing. It has the texture and flavor of a traditional stuffing.

You could make it as a dressing by just adding more broth.

Sarah often has roasted Brussel sprouts, a steamed vegetable, a salad, and some kind of root vegetable mash.

Stacy and Sarah both blend the liver into the gravy to add more nutrients to their meal.

Your turkey will have all the parts, so you just use those to add those to the broth.

On a broader scale, rethink Thanksgiving.

Instead of trying to recreate standard American foods, reimagine flavorful delicious foods that you love.

A great example is this biscuit recipe that Matt and Stacy came up with.

Being invited to a meal like this can be a stepping stone into rethinking what healthy eating means.

All their guests are really happy with a delicious meal, and the gluten-free desserts are purchased from a bakery and equally enjoyed as well.

When Stacy was first planning Thanksgiving from a Paleo mindset, they utilized Pinterest to inspire how to reimagine the traditional dishes.


The AIP Guest

Question 3, I have been invited to a holiday dinner at my soon be in-laws. How do I navigate my AIP dietary needs without offending? (30:19)

For Stacy personally, she doesn't expect someone else to bend their meal for her.

Stacy would always be very upfront with her family about how excited the family was to come and spend the holiday with them.

She would then be honest and say that she is working on her health and not able to eat a lot of things right now.

Her approach was to bring her own food and to reiterate to her hosts to not feel like they needed to cater to her, but she wanted to give them a heads up.

Sarah handles these types of situations by offering to bring a recipe that is AIP friendly that she can share with everyone but is kind of like a meal itself.

She will also bring a dessert, offering to bring two to three things that she can eat and share with others.

If you don't feel like you have the ability to make a delicious dessert that would please everybody then bring some Sweet Apricity caramels for yourself and don't worry about it.

The day is about spending time with one another and enjoying company with our friends.

Food brings us together in these social situations, so don't let it divide you.


Use the Turkey Carcass

Question 4, what can I do with my turkey carcass? (35:20)

Make so much broth that you have to freeze it.

Matt and Stacy make turkey soup with the first round of broth, when the carcass still has the bits and pieces of meat on the bone.

It is not as intense of a broth because the bones aren't cooked as long so that the meat doesn't go bad.

They then take the carcass and do a second round broth prep in the Instant Pot.

Stacy reminded listeners when you are making broth, do not add vegetables in the beginning.

Go back and listen to these podcast episodes on broth (part 1, part 2 and part 3).

If you are making good broth, you are just adding enough water for the bones to be covered and then cooking for multiple rounds.

If you want to add aromatics do it at the very end.

Sarah would do a 36 to 48-hour broth on the stovetop, which is her preferred way to make broth.

The smell of broth cooking makes Sarah think of fall.


Leftovers & Pets

Question 5, is it safe to give pets bits of turkey or other leftovers? (39:45) 

Generally, meat bits are pretty safe. If they are use to a raw diet you could give them the giblets cut up into small pieces.

If they are not use to a raw diet, you could give them the cooked version.

Cats don't tolerate vegetables that well, but dogs can tolerate a little bit.

If you are use to making pet food, you would simply use the same formulas.

If you are not, you would use it as an addition to your normal purchased dog/cat food.

The turkey broth, unseasoned, is great for your pets.

The same things that are toxic, like chocolate, are still toxic so avoid those.

Stacy again wanted to reiterate that if you are not blending your liver and giblets into your gravy, your animals will love that.

Poultry bones are not ok to give your pets.

However, you can give them the cartilage.


The Leftovers

Stacy and Sarah's feelings around dark and white turkey meat. (44:03)

A mayo-based turkey salad recipe is one of Stacy's favorite ways to put the leftover white meat to good use.

There is also a Thai dish that Matt and Stacy love to create with their leftover turkey meat.

Sarah likes to freeze one meal worth of leftovers for the four of them.

They then pull that meal out of the freezer at a later time when they can appreciate all those flavors again.


Staying On Plan

Last question, how do you each stay on the wagon during the holiday season? (47:37)

Stacy simply knows what is not going to make her feel good and she doesn't eat those things.

While she has talked about this before, you are choosing this lifestyle because it helps you feel your best.

If you decide that you are going to eat things that you might not normally eat on Thanksgiving, examine your health goals and plan accordingly.

If you don't yet know what foods make you feel good or bad, maybe a holiday isn't the right day to test those foods.

Sarah's site has great resources on how to eliminate and reintroduce to test how different foods make you feel.

Now is a great time to explore these questions, so that as the holiday approaches you can eat in a way that feels right for your holiday enjoyment and well-being.

Don't treat from now until New Year's Day as a free for all.

Stacy's mindset is not that she can't eat something, it's that she doesn't choose to eat something.

You are in charge of your health is a powerful mindset.

The mindset piece for Sarah is how do you define, 'on the wagon'?

It is much easier to navigate this season allowing and choosing some indulgences while keeping on the right side of the line of 'what is going to wreck me'.

If you have been on this health journey for a while and understand your body, this is an easier process to tackle.

You ultimately need to understand, what are the foods that are going to make me ill? What are the foods that are going to wreck me?

Also, what foods are going to give me a side effect that is tolerable?

Sarah also recommends having a strong knowledge of what your body needs to thrive.

How do these needs shift around stress, sleep and activity levels?

When you understand your body really well, it is a question of avoiding wrecking ourselves with foods that we know just don't work for us.

It stops being a diet at that point, and it starts being a choice on how you eat to support yourself. And it starts being an actual lifestyle.

It is hard to get to that point if you have been Paleo for two months and this is your first holiday season.

It takes time to experiment and learn what works best for you.

Sarah has to work hard to maintain nutrient density throughout the holiday season.

You will reach the point of knowing what works for you as an individual, but you have to give yourself time to experiment and observe.

Sarah encourages those who are new to this lifestyle to not try to muscle your way through staying on the wagon during the holidays.

Instead, think of this season as a way to understand your body better and think of it in terms of what you have learned so far.

Think of this as the journey of understanding yourself and knowing what is important to you when it comes to supporting your lifelong health.

Sometimes the food is really secondary, and what is actually impacting our health in this season is less sleep, alcohol consumption, stress increases, etc.

Focusing on keeping the lifestyle stuff actually helps the diet part.

Think of it as a journey, not on the wagon and off the wagon.

Think of this season in the most positive framework possible.


Closing Thoughts

Stacy loved Sarah's wrap up, and the amazing points she emphasized. (58:08)

Remember, taking your probiotics when you are surrounded by extra sugar is very helpful.

Stacy and Sarah both prefer Thrive Probiotics.

If you are not current Butcher Box subscribers, take advantage of the amazing free turkey offer.

Visit this link for more information.

Thank you so much for listening! And thank you to Butcher Box for sponsoring this show!

Stacy and Sarah will be back again next week with a very science-heavy topic that Sarah has been working on for a few weeks.

If you have questions that you would like to submit, feel free to use the contact forms on both Stacy and Sarah's sites of their social media channels.

Be sure to share this show with someone who you think could benefit from these tips.

And of course, leaving a review on iTunes is a great way to ensure that others find out about this show. (1:00:52)

Welcome back to the Paleo View listeners - episode 373! (0:41)

Sarah has 98% of her voice back, and it is almost all the way better.

Stacy is into powdered vegetables.

It is interesting to Sarah that they have done 10 to 15 episodes tackling vegetables from different perspectives.

This episode is part of the 'how many vegetables' series, where Stacy and Sarah explain the reasons behind a high vegetable consumption diet.

Stacy corrected Sarah and noted that they have likely discussed a high vegetable diet for 373 episodes.

Sarah has always thought of powdered veggies as a wholefood supplement to make a high veggie diet doable.

Before the hosts dive into the meat of the show; this week's episode is sponsored by Joovv.

Red and infrared light therapy can benefit just about every system in the human body.

For Stacy and Sarah in particular, Joovv red light therapy has helped reduce inflammation, regulate the immune system, reduce pain, improve thyroid health, improve sleep quality and more.

You can learn more by visiting this link here.

Stacy wanted to remind listeners, that Joovv does offer different sizes with various price points. Check them out!


Powdered Fruits & Veggies

Listener Riley listened to the 'how many vegetables' series and had a follow-up question in reference to the celery juice episode. (9:03)

Riley asks, "what about the OPPOSITE of juicing?

So many people are starting to offer these powdered greens, mushrooms, fruits, etc. to pack in nutrients.

When Sarah was talking about the nutrients, fiber, and phytochemicals that get lost in the juicing process, it made me wonder if any of those are lost in the drying/ powdering process, as well?"

Stacy wanted to take a moment to remind listeners that the point of vegetables is that they are full of health benefits.

If the only way we are consuming vegetables is by "sneaking them" then we are not teaching how important these vegetables are for health long-term.

There are things that we can do to help kids build up their taste for vegetables.

However, as adults, we need to eat vegetables and show our kids we are eating vegetables.

We have to show our kids that no matter how busy we are and no matter where we go to eat, we can and should incorporate vegetables.

Stacy wanted to lay this groundwork before they discuss powders and juicing.

Sarah wants to remind listeners of the key message here. (15:45)

High vegetable consumption is fundamental for longterm health.

The most sustainable and affordable way to achieve that is not by relying on supplements.

Sarah is not an anti-supplement person, but she doesn't think they are our first line.

Supplements are a fine-tuning tool.

When we are using supplements to replace something we are having a hard time consuming as part of our diet, we need to ask ourselves why.

Sarah thinks there is a healthy balance where we are making an effort to eat as many fresh vegetables as we can and teaching that behavior to our children.


The Dehydration & Grinding Process

There are two different classes of methods when it comes to dehydrating vegetables. (18:52)

One is with heat and one is with refrigeration, and there are various technologies within these two categories.

The temperatures used with the heat method varies but is typically between 60 and 80 degrees Celcius.

With some methods, the temperature gets so high that the vegetables are being cooked during the dehydration process.

Opposite to the heat methods is basically freeze-drying.

With the heat-based dehydration methods, you are losing nutrients.

It is not as bad as some people think, but it varies by the food, the exact process, and the nutrient that you are looking to measure.

One paper, in particular, was looking at fresh soups versus dry powder mixes that were then mixed to make a soup and the difference in nutrient retention.

This study was looking at the nutrients in the tomato, pumpkin, and onion.

They also used a nutrient density score in this test, measuring the fiber content, magnesium, iron, zinc, potassium, vitamin A, vitamin B1, vitamin B2, vitamin B3, vitamin B6, vitamin C, and vitamin K1.

The dried and powdered tomato only had 67% of the equivalent of the fresh tomato. So it lost 1/3 of its nutrients in the dehydration process.

The onion had 95% compared to fresh.

The pumpkin had 93% compared to fresh.

Certain nutrients are more volatile than others.

This shows you that it is really hard to make a blanket statement regarding the change in nutrients when converting fresh vegetables to powder form.

Vegetables offer us fiber that is important to our gut microbiome, important vitamins and minerals, and antioxidant phytochemicals.

When you start to look at antioxidant phytochemicals, this is where heat drying methods start to seem unsatisfactory.

Studies have shown that in hot air drying methods, the powder can have as little as three percent of the flavonoid content as the starting fresh food.

It seems as though, the higher the temperature of the drying process, the lower the nutrient content is of the end product.

Look for labels that include the words raw and/or low temperature.

Minerals tend to not be lost in this process, but vitamins and phytochemicals are.

It depends on how you are measuring nutrient loss, the exact food, and the exact dehydrating and powdering process.

Most of the typical grinding techniques to make a vegetable powder also cause loss of nutrients. (26:23)

The normal methods for grinding after convection dehydration, or hot air drying, would add mechanical heat.

There have been various studies looking at what happens additionally to nutrients after the food has been dehydrated when it is ground.

It is shown that there can be an additional loss of volatile compounds by 30%, and also lose most of the flavonoids.

Looking at high antioxidant fruit powders, studies showed that by the time you dehydrate those and use mechanical grinding, the finished product has no antioxidant capacity.

There are some processes where they pre-chill the food, pre-cool the equipment, or they add some coolant to the process to keep the food from getting too hot.

This process will help to reduce nutrient loss.

Overall, this is a challenge for the food industry, as there is a market for vegetable powders.

However, through the standard inexpensive ways of creating them, you can lose some of the most compelling nutrients that are in the food that makes it a healthy food.


The Nutrient-Density Factor

With the freeze-drying technique, this process is done with very cold temperatures, in a vacuum. So it is done in the absence of oxygen.

Freeze drying is fantastic for retaining color, shape, aroma, flavor profile, and nutritional value.

There are some foods that are more susceptible to nutrient loss even under freeze-drying conditions.

However, when you are looking at a food that is more susceptible to nutrient loss, you are looking at a 10 to 20% compared to 97% loss of nutrients.

Most of the studies have shown that nutrient loss is more in the 5% range.

So you are retaining more of the vitamin C, antioxidant phytochemicals, and a lot more of the other vitamins.

There has been a huge variety of studies that looked at fruit and vegetable freeze-drying.

These studies showed that freeze-drying is the best method for nutrient and phytochemical content retention.

Stacy remembered that NASA freeze-dries the astronauts' food. (33:27)

NASA clearly has this figured out.

There are studies showing that freeze-drying can even increase phytochemicals.

Consuming something freeze-dried is pretty close to equivalent to consuming fresh food.

To maintain the nutrients, this means that the freeze-drying needs to be combined with a grinding technique that keeps the powder cold.

There are two grinding techniques that are typically used with freeze-dried foods.

In scientific details, Sarah described more about how the dehydration process works versus the freeze-drying process.


Powdered Vegetables & Fruits Role on Health

There have been some studies looking at powdered vegetable supplements and shown some health benefits. (40:34)

There was a four-week study in ten people where they were given two tablespoons of a greens powder.

The results showed that the powder improved their antioxidant capacity and reduced oxidized proteins and oxidized lipids in the blood.

There was a ninety-day study in forty people with high blood pressure, who were given two tablespoons of a greens powder daily.

They showed a reduction in blood pressure over three months.

However, you see the same effects in studies when you just give them more vegetables.

It is nice to see that a powdered vegetable supplement can show measurable health effects. However, there is nothing special about powdered vegetables.

It is worth discussing though, that there is one potential exception.

And this is the effect of a smaller fiber particle size on the microbiome.

This is relevant to a vegetable or fruit powder but is also relevant to making a smoothie or soup in a high powered blender.

Different foods are fermented faster at a small particle size, and others ferment faster at large particle sizes.

The details of fiber structure matter.

The detail of the molecular structure matters in terms of what types of bacteria can access it, how easily they can access it, and how easily they can use it as food.

This is why a high variety of vegetables is really important for supporting a healthy and diverse gut microbiome.

Additionally, this is why we want to mix up consuming both raw and cooked vegetables.

When it comes to the gut microbiome there is not a concise statement that can be made regarding powdered vegetables.

We ideally need to consume a mix of fibers; some that ferment slowly and some that ferment quickly. This is so that fiber can be digested throughout the digestive tract.


In Summary

There is nothing wrong with powdered fruit and veggies from a gut microbiome perspective. In fact, here are times where they might be beneficial.

There is not an argument to be made in favor of powdered fruits and vegetables from a gut microbiome perspective.

So whether we look at it from a nutrient perspective or a gut microbiome perspective, we are basically seeing the same thing.

Freeze-dried retains nutrients and that there is nothing about vegetable powders that makes them a compelling substitute for fresh fruits and vegetables.

The only caveat is how powders can fit into our lives with ease and convenience.

Stacy adds powdered veggies to smoothies, using the blend Sarah helped create with Vital Proteins.

It isn't something Stacy has every day. However, she finds that it is a great way to get in veggies when she isn't in the mood to eat a meal.

With her meals, Stacy is always looking for ways to add micronutrients with her macronutrients.

Stacy shared more on her go-to smoothie recipe.

The Vital Proteins collagen veggie blend is AIP. Two small scoops have a serving of collagen peptides, two servings of vegetables and half a serving of high antioxidant fruit.

This specific blend has eleven fruits and vegetables in it.

The amount of freeze-dried vegetable powder that you have to consume to equate to a serving can vary dramatically from company to company.

Using the fiber grams and calories, you can compare how much of the powder you need to get to equal to how much fresh.

Sarah did a bit of research on various brands of powdered vegetables, looking at the cost and serving comparison of powdered versus fresh produce.

The goal here is to consume more fruits and vegetables and to make behavioral changes in our life that support lifelong health.

We need to evaluate what is our challenge to consuming more fresh vegetables.

When people have a lot of GI symptoms when they consume a lot of vegetables, often vegetable powders can be a lot easier on the digestive tract.

In this particular example, powdered vegetables can be an entry point into consuming more fresh fruits and vegetables for people who are recovering from GI conditions.

Look for a powder that has been freeze-dried, or lowest temperature processing possible.

Also, do your own math to find out what the fresh equivalent is. Do not count on the servings on the label to inform you what the fresh servings are.

Work on adding more fruits and vegetables to your diet. And potentially use vegetable powders as a really good tool when/if needed.

Vegetable powders hit most of the pro column checks that Sarah would look for.


Closing Thoughts

Sarah thinks it's awesome that we have something like vegetable powders available to us. It makes consuming higher amounts of fresh fruits and vegetables easy to fit into busy lives.

Stacy wanted to thank Joovv again for sponsoring this show. (1:01:41)

Sarah and Stacy both use and love Joovv.

Check out this podcast episode for more on how Joovv plays an important role in Stacy and Sarah's health journey.

And learn more about the Joovv products here:

So drink your collagen veggie blend smoothie while you are using your Joovv and think of how your body is loving it.

Thanks for listening! And of course, Stacy and Sarah will be back again next week! (1:02:43)

Welcome back Paleo View! (0:41)

This week Stacy and Sarah had intended to bring a science-heavy vegetable show to listeners.

However, once you hear Sarah talk you will find out why the hosts have decided to no let her talk for an hour.

Sarah is on day six of the bug she is fighting.

She feels that her voice has improved. There was a twenty-four-hour window where she wasn't able to talk at all.

Stacy thought it would be great to give Sarah's voice a rest and to share an update on life.

She has even done research on a topic she would like to share with listeners.

Matt and Stacy's house is officially on the market.

The day before the house went to market, Stacy's back completely seized up and she is on day nine of this flair.

This is the longest stretch of time she has been down from her back injury.

Stacy learned a lot from this flair, as she wasn't doing the things she normally does to take of herself.

In the midst of a stressful period in life, Stacy got a tattoo in memory of Andrew, along with Matt and Matt's youngest brother.

The tattoo is very tiny. However, as shared on this podcast episode, tattoos are an immune agitator.

There were many stressful factors piling up on Stacy, and the minute that the house went to market her back started hurting.

It's not a coincidence. The stress causes muscle tightness, the muscle tightness constricts her spine, causing the nerve to be pinched.

Stacy knows what is happening and has physical therapy exercises, supplements, and time to rest.

Luckily, now she is one the up and up.

As a reminder to listeners, whatever health issues you have had previously or have ongoing flairs with, stress management is vital.

Bone broth can only take you so far, and if you aren't listening to your body you can miss the warning signs.

Stacy has been utilizing the hot tub while recovering, and through research has found that there are multiple benefits.(9:12) 

Through her research, Stacy has found that there are multiple benefits to hot baths. There are also some risks, so this might not be for everyone.

There were significant studies that showed that taking a couple of hot baths a day would reduce your chance of heart attack and stroke.

The research showed, that the hot soak increases your heart rate while decreasing your blood pressure at the same time.

You also sweat while in the hot tub, which allows you to detoxify additional toxins.

For Stacy, the hot water relaxes her muscles, which is a trifecta of goodness.

Stacy also read in a study that time in hot soaks reduces inflammation, which makes sense.

Sarah really hears Stacy on the importance of looking after herself.

When Sarah doesn't have control over her environment when she is traveling, or if she doesn't have the ability to recover after traveling, the chances of her getting sick are really high.

Sarah use to get sick far more often before Paleo. However, now Sarah gets sick when traveling or publishing a book.

In particular, with this last trip, between the physically stressful travel itinerary, the jetlag, the emotional stress from the family crisis, and then going into work mode, set her up for a crash.

Sarah also was exposed to someone with laryngitis, while dealing with a weakened immune system from traveling.

It doesn't hurt for Sarah to swallow, but she can feel the burn of the inflammation and her neck hurts.

Sarah doesn't feel good and hasn't for the past week.

She has been sleeping as much as she can and working as little as she can.

Sarah is also trying to reschedule things that can be rescheduled, or making the choice to simply not do things that don't have to be done right now.

It is frustrating to have a body that doesn't allow Sarah to abuse it. However, at the same time, it helps Sarah to stay on the straight and narrow.

One of the most common questions that Sarah receives from people is, 'how do you do it all?'.

And this is how she does it. It sometimes takes everything out of her and then she has to drop everything for one to three weeks while she recovers.

Stress management is always Sarah's challenge. The things she wants to do, while they make her brain happy, don't always make her body happy.

She has to balance what Sarah physically needs to be healthy, versus what she wants to do with her knowledge base, her talents, and her passions.

This often feels like Sarah is walking a tightrope trying to balance these things.

She didn't balance these things, and now here she is sick.

Stacy is glad that Sarah is on the up, but thinks she needs more of the things that will help her recover.

Sarah and Stacy plan to talk next week and return with an energized Sarah.

Listeners, thank you for tuning in and for having patience with Stacy and Sarah's peeks in their journey.

If you are feeling well, appreciate it. Think about the things you are doing that make you feel that way, so that the next time you are not feeling well, you too can have a path to recovery.

Thanks again for being here! And thank you, Sarah, for coming on and pushing through! (20:21)

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