The Whole View

Join Stacy of Real Everything and Dr. Sarah of The Paleo Mom as they bust myths and answer your questions about a nontoxic lifestyle, nutrient-dense diet, Autoimmune Protocol, and parenting.

Welcome to episode 451 of The Whole View! This week, Stacy and Sarah address the health benefits, the question of sustainable seafood and Seaspiracy as a whole. 


If you enjoy the show, please review it on iTunes!

The Whole View, Episode 451: ConspiraSEA: Is Sustainable Seafood Impossible?

Welcome back to episode 451! (0:28)

Stacy and Sarah have received many questions on Netflix new documentary, Seaspiracy. 

Stacy took almost eight pages of notes, while Sarah has also prepared many sea-related puns for you.

First off, the name ConspiraSEA was right there, and she totally feels they missed the boat (ha!) on that one. 

Stacy also mentions they gathered thirteen pages between them to ensure you are provided with as much information as possible and not just Stacy and Sarah's opinions.

The message the show tries to deliver is the opposite of this show's top recommendations. 

Stacy could tell within minutes that the filmmakers had an agenda. She and Sarah plan to review the science-based facts from the claims made in the film. 

The goal is to help listeners navigate safe, sustainable seafood because despite what the film attempts to present, seaweed and plant-based options do not compare to the health benefits.

So Stacy and Sarah want to dive right in. (Get it?)   


Benefits of Seafood

It's important to emphasize what we'd be missing out on if the premise that sustainable fishing is impossible is true. (4: 01)

Eating more seafood can reduce cardiovascular disease and prevent obesity and diabetes.

High amounts of vitamins, minerals, carotenoids, fats, and protein all contribute to these benefits. (Intro to Nutrivore)

Fish is a great source of vitamins B1, B2, B3, B6, B9, B12 and E, zinc, phosphorus, magnesium, iron, copper, potassium and selenium. Oily, cold-water fish provide substantial amounts of vitamin A and vitamin D as well.

Fish with bones remaining (such as canned salmon and sardines) are the best dietary sources of calcium in the food supply. Marine fish are an excellent dietary source of iodine.

High Selenium Content

  • protect against some cancers, 
  • enhance bone health, 
  • maintain thyroid health, 
  • reduce the risk of infection,
  • assist in DNA production, and 
  • protect the body from free radical damage

Omega-3 Fats EPA and DHA

  • reduce inflammation, 
  • lower blood pressure, 
  • protect against some cancers (including breast), 
  • increase insulin sensitivity, and 
  • improve endothelial function
  • Improves gut microbiome composition


Or any fish with a similar salmon-pink or orange color also contains the antioxidant carotenoid astaxanthin.

  • helps reduce LDL oxidation
  • boosts HDL levels, and 
  • protects against skin damage.


Fish protein is the BEST!

Also supports a healthy, diverse gut microbiome (in addition to omega-3s) - better than any other protein source: beef, pork, chicken, soy, casein, and pea. (11:20)

Many fish benefits are mediated via protein, and fish protein is easy to digest. 

In a meta-analysis of five prospective cohort studies, lean whitefish's high consumption reduced the risk of stroke by 19% (which was even more than fatty fish intake, which reduced stroke risk by 12%). 

A study of Swedish women shows that three servings of lean fish per week reduced the risk of stroke by 33% compared to zero servings per week. 

In Norwegian men, weekly lean fish consumption (including whitefish) was associated with a lower risk of metabolic syndrome, lower triglyceride levels, and higher HDL cholesterol. 

Likewise, a randomized crossover trial found that simply adding 100 grams per day of whitefish (Namibia hake) to the diet significantly lowered waist circumference, diastolic blood pressure, and LDL levels! 

And another trial found that eating 150 grams of cod per week caused significantly greater weight loss in young overweight adults than a same-calorie diet without seafood.


Seaspiracy "Documentary"

Sarah poses the question: what if eating fish and shellfish is destroying the ocean ecosystem and is actually full of toxins? (17:30)

This is what Seaspiracy claims, so let's talk about this propaganda.

Stacy reminds us documentaries are a filming style, and the information contained within is not regulated. 

They can be amazing ways to learn about history or science. They can also be manipulative propaganda. So just because it's in documentary format does not mean it's news or that it's true.

This documentary was made by the same people who made What the Health and Cowspiracy.

We don't want to get into a point-by-point discussion but let's bust the two biggest myths purported by this documentary:

Sustainable Seafood Claims

The "movie" claims that there's no such thing as sustainable seafood what so ever. Commercial fishing is destroying the oceans. 

They claim fisheries aren't regulated, and fish farms are even worse. Also, the proportion of fish sold in the U.S. is caught illegally, and the ""sustainably caught label is meaningless.

The second claim is that we should all be vegan. Seafood is full of toxins (like mercury and PCBs) and microplastics. It's destroying the oceans, and we can get the same nutrients from algae.


What is Sustainable Fishing?

Sarah adds that her first research job in college was research for the Canadian Department of Fisheries and Oceans. (22:01)

It entailed actually doing research for sustainable salmon fishing. They even published a paper based on her research! 

The United States is recognized as a global leader in sustainable seafood because we rely on strong science, responsive management, and enforced compliance.

Fish, shellfish, and marine algae are renewable resources because they reproduce and replenish their populations naturally. 

That means we can sustainably harvest fish within certain limits without depleting their populations. 

Sustainability has two basic steps:

  • Scientists perform a stock assessment to recommend how much fish should be harvested.
  • Fishery managers and regulators follow and enforce that recommendation.

Fishery management uses science to determine these limits and entails catching some fish while leaving some to reproduce and replace the fish that are caught.

What It Means For Sustainability

The United States is actually a global leader in seafood sustainability in general. Interesting enough, Stacy notes the "documentary" left this detail out entirely. (25:03)

The argument centers around that our global population are rising, but our global abundance of wild fish is not. 

Food and Agriculture Organization of the U.N. (FAO) estimates that 66% of fisheries are sustainable, contributing 78.7% of consumed seafood. 

This means there's room for improvement since 20% of the fish eaten in the world are from overfishing. 

However, this doesn't mean give up on fish. It means you need to be an informed consumer!

One of the amazing things about our oceans is that fish stocks can recover and replenish if they are managed carefully for the long term. 

Some stocks that have come back from the brink include the Patagonian toothfish in the Southern Oceans. 

Other examples include the recovery of Namibian hake, after years of overfishing by foreign fleets, or the increase in some of our major tuna stocks globally. 

Research shows that fish stocks that are well-managed and sustainable are also more productive in the long term. This means there is more seafood for our growing global population.

Outlying Scientific Data on Sustainable Seafood

In 2006, a study predicted a global collapse of fish species and empty oceans by 2048. However, it was later busted here: 

Stacy adds that while watching the "documentary," she noted all the studies referenced were at least 5 years old. 

Sarah mentions that when she comes across studies considered "outliers" and goes against most other data, she looked a bit closer at the details. 

Nowadays, we're seeing many of these "outlier" articles being overly weighted and fueling pseudoscience claims on the internet.

She notes that it doesn't mean that they are necessarily wrong. We just need to look a bit more critically at the science to figure out what exactly is happening. 


Commercial Fishing is Highly Regulated

Stacy notes one important aspect she learned from the "documentary" is that people can be bribed anywhere. (38:06)

She adds that given details in contrast to the "documentary" agenda can be cut out to strengthen the case.

Because bribery exists, the "documentary" claims you can't believe anything anyone in the industry says. However, they fail to provide any instances of this so-called bribery.

Commercial fishing is not equivalent to CAFO's or industrial farming. All it means is catching fish to sell.

It can be done large scale, but the industry is highly regulated. In fact, U.S. fishermen abide by some of the most rigorous environmental measures in the world.

Both large and small scale fishing boats are regularly inspected to ensure fisheries are protected, and we're abiding by sustainable seafood guidelines. 

Fishery management in the United States is guided by several laws, including the Magnuson-Stevens Act, Marine Mammal Protection Act, and Endangered Species Act.

10 national standards of sustainability manage U.S. fisheries. These standards aim to prevent overfishing, protect other species and habitat, and minimize bycatch on non-target species. 

It is the case that some fish sold in the U.S. were caught elsewhere. 

If you're looking to uphold sustainability, ensure you shop local or see where the fish was caught, or the fishery is located.

It's important to note that the main economy of Pacific island nations is fishing. So outlawing the sustainable seafood industry would result in their economy's collapse.


Farm Fishing Isn't Evil

Stacy notes one claim the "documentary" makes is that fish farms have a "organic waste" (aka the fish poop in the water). (51:35)

Fish poop is not a toxic substance and used as food for organisms like algae. 

Aquaculture, or farming in water, plays a critical role in ensuring that our need for seafood is met sustainably. It's also a resource-efficient way of increasing and diversifying U.S. seafood production. 

The future of sustainable seafood must include both farm-raised and wild-capture seafood! 

Increasingly, seafood farming (if done responsibly as it is in the United States) is recognized as one of the most environmentally sustainable ways to produce food and protein.

We discussed antibiotics use and "coloring" in farmed fish in Episode 366: Seafood Safety Concerns.

Sarah notes there's a mandatory withdrawal period for each type of antibiotic fed to fish before the fish can be slaughtered. So, there is ample time to make sure there's no residuals in the meat by the time we eat them. 

Additionally, the dye used is actually astaxanthin: the same red carotenoid pigment found in red algae makes wild fish flesh that distinctive color. It's an important antioxidant and makes them healthier! 

Because of feed ingredients, the nutrient profile of farmed fish usually isn't as good as wild. But, it's still a great choice!

Marine Stewardship Council Certification

At Whole Foods, the seafood counter displays blue labels from the Marine Stewardship Council (MSC), an international, nonprofit organization. (58:52)

The MSC is a prime example of an economic trend: private groups, not the government, tell consumers what is good or bad for the environment. 

The MSC says its label guarantees that the wild seafood was caught using methods that do not deplete the natural supply. 

It also guarantees that fishing companies do not cause serious harm to other life in the sea, from coral to dolphins.

Unilever and the World Wildlife Fund joined hands in 1997 to establish MSC as an independent not-for-profit, more than 20 years ago over concerns about overfishing, 

This certification process is not carried out by the MSC. It is independent and carried out by expert assessment bodies. Also, it's an entirely transparent process, and NGOs and others have multiple opportunities to provide input. 

All the assessments can be viewed online at Track a Fishery

Only fisheries that meet the rigorous requirements of Standard get certified.

Check out their rebuttal to Seaspiracy here!

Other labels to look for:

  • The Monterey Bay Aquarium labels products like a traffic light — green, yellow or red — to urge shoppers to buy or avoid a particular fish. 
  • The Blue Ocean Institute has a similar system.
  • The Tuna Tracking and Verification Program (TTVP), established under the Dolphin Protection Consumer Information Act, is how NOAA Fisheries monitors compliance with dolphin-safe tuna labeling. (Reference)
  • What about the BAP cert for responsibly farmed fish?

This topic is very important to Sarah and Stacy, and they want to make sure they're supporting the right companies and share this with listeners for their own knowledge.



The "documentary" claims that sustainably sourced labels are lies and all dishonest. (1:12:20)

It was organized in a very manipulative way where it starts with a fact but shows footage as a representative that isn't a fact. 

Stacy shares these examples:

Fact: enough single-line is used daily to wrap around the world 500x.

  • This does not mean that much line is discarded into the ocean daily- just used
  • It's phrased as though it's being dumped in the ocean every day, which it's not. 
  • In fact, single line fishing is a good thing!

Fact: 250,000 sea turtles are "captured, injured, or killed" in U.S. annually from fishing vessels. 

  • When fact-checked, you realize that that number includes the ones returned to the ocean after capture or healing from injury.
  • This species is protected now, so many are rescued and returned. 
  • However, the "documentary" conveniently leaves that out to manipulate the impact of the number. 

Sarah adds that we are biologically herbivores (solely plants) or carnivores (solely meat) but omnivores. This means our body is designed to gain nutrients from a combination plant and meat diet. 


Fish Toxins

Can't we just eat algae? No- it's not the same as seafood. By this logic, we'd get the same nutrients eating grass that we do from eating beef.

Stacy and Sarah did a whole episode on it: TPV Podcast Episode 366: Seafood Safety Concerns.

There have been a few European studies showing a U-shaped response curve to fish consumption. Moderate fish consumption reduces all-cause mortality and cardiovascular disease risk. However, higher fish consumption increases the risk of all-cause mortality. 

The studies have postulated that this may be due to increased exposure to some of the toxins that can accumulate in fish. These toxins include methylmercury, dioxins, and polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs)

However, this isn't seen in North American or Asian cohorts studies where fish is equally as likely to contain these toxins. 

The authors of a rigorous 2017 meta-analysis proposed an alternate explanation for a U-shaped curve in Europe. Traditional preparations of fish in many parts of Europe include deep-frying, pickling, or salting. 

This high-salt and/or trans-fatty acid intake may be to blame for the higher all-cause mortality seen with higher fish consumption.

What about microplastics?

We've talked about single-use plastics on the show before in TPV Podcast Episode 352: Sustainability & Mother Earth.

Also, Sarah has written about it here:

Plastic pollution is a problem! They did get that right. For more information on this, see articles here and here. But solving this problem doesn't include avoiding seafood (buy sustainably caught).

Look to lower your carbon footprint, reduce the use of single-use plastics, avoid cycling, recycle properly, and look to reusable bags and containers.

There are better ways to learn about how to protect our oceans:

  • Planet Earth documentary
  • Blue Planet
  • Nova
  • National Geographic
  • Scientific American magazine

Where Do Stacy and Sarah Get Fish?

My favorite source is ButcherBox

Stacy has a local fishmonger at farmer's market, plus Costco, Trader Joe's - tons of vendors now sell Alaskan and/or certified sustainable seafood

Farmed shrimp, Alaskan / farmer's market salmon, dolphin-safe line-caught tuna, local shellfish

Great Resources


Final Thoughts

Sarah reminds listeners that documentaries are not grounded in scientific fact and can be skewed. (1:31:40) 

The truth is the oceans are in trouble and need help, just not wholly in the ways stressed in the "documentary" Seacpiracy. 

We need to look at this practice to find an action we can walk away with feeling good about. 

If you haven't joined the Patreon family yet, joining supports this podcast and provides you with bonus content on what Stacy and Sarah really feel. 

Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next week!

The Whole View, Episode 450: Spices on the AIP? What’s In, What's Out, and Why.

Welcome back to episode 450! (0:28)

Stacy and Sarah both have sensitivities to nightshades due to inflammation-driven health issues. 

Nightshades are common trigger foods and can be super problematic to autoimmune diseases and chronic illnesses as well.

This is because the immune system is already in overdrive. Adding an immune stimulant (such as nightshades) to the equation can cause symptom flare-ups.

The logic that goes into the autoimmune protocol requires a little bit of reasoning about how best to apply it to your day-to-day choices.

When writing her book on AIP, Sarah's research really focused on how the immune system works and how it intersects with nutrients, lifestyle, hormones, etc.

Understanding how foods can be problematic for some people is never irrelevant. Even if you're perfectly healthy, the science behind AIP can be applied to optimize diet and troubleshoot any future health issues.

In this episode, Stacy and Sarah plan to do a deep dive into what herbs and spices are awesome when on AIP, which are considered early reintroductions, and which ones are best avoided until the very end of the healing process.

For more references, please see:

Listener Question

This episode was inspired by this listener question from Jeff. (10:30)


I'm a chef of 20 years and as most of us in the hospitality industry have experienced, things are not good. During my temporary retirement I've decided to help out a family who has started an AIP diet. I haven't cooked specifically for a person who has said they are specifically AIP, but I have had plenty of experience with similar dietary needs. It will no doubt be a challenge, but it will be a fantastic learning experience and chance to change a persons experience while on their path to recovery.

In my journey I'm looking for ways to infuse the flavors which I like to use in ways that will be in line with the protocol. My inquiry has to do mainly with flavor infusion. Take for example a brine for pork. I use products like whole black peppercorn, whole coriander seed, mustard seed, etc. to add layers of flavor to the brine. Is the main issue with these spices the pieces of the seeds? Are the extracted oils also off limits? My main concern is around spices. I would venture to believe that nightshade oils are the problem (i.e. dried chilies, capsicum, etc).

- Jeff

Stacy reflects on how much she enjoy's Jeff looking at it from a chemistry perspective in the cooking.

Alternatively, people who find out they can't eat raw tomatoes might discover they can have cooked ones as they reintroduce foods back into their diet.

It's very bioindivideal, meaning Stacy and Sarah can't answer what foods will affect you and why. AIP is a way to isolate triggers for you personally to optimize your health.

Overall Philosophy Spices on the AIP

Sarah believes the most helpful place to start is taking a step back and looking at herbs and spices in general. (13:30)

The autoimmune protocol first tries to flood the body with nutrients- both essential and nonessential. Sarah references this show for more information on nutrient toxicity.

Another thing AIP tries to do is remove inflammatory properties from the diet. Herbs are derived from the leaves of fragrant plants and sometimes flowers. 

They are safe to use whole, fresh or dried. It's actually very beneficial to include them since the same phytonutrients that provide the flavor tend to be awesome antioxidants and anti-inflammatory. 

Other properties they often have are anti-cancer, liver protective, neuroprotective, and more. See our Essential Oil show for more on extracts, though. 

These can be more complex and don't get an automatic pass. TPV Podcast, Episode 272: What's the Deal with Essential Oils?

Spices often derive from non-reproductive plant parts like barks, roots, styles, and arils, but it's not always the case. 

Herbs don't generally need to be ground before using in a recipe, whereas spices often need to be ground before using.

Why Spices on the AIP Are Eliminated

They are eliminated on AIP if they derive from seeds, berries, fruit, or the nightshade family. (21:20)

This is due to their unusually high food allergy and intolerance rates. 

Seed spices should be avoided at first, even though many seed-based spices haven't been specifically studied. 

Spices that derive from berries and fruits of plants typically contain more seed than fruit. You are still consuming the ground seed.

Depending on your individual autoimmune challenges, some people tolerate the very small doses of seed-based spices used in cooking. This happens during Phase 1 Reintroductions. 

As a result, seeds are often early reintroductions because they aren't something that necessarily will show up on an allergy test.

However, something can cause inflammation or stomach issues without being an actual allergy. In that case, passing a test doesn't mean you're in the clear to eat it without complications.

Proteins that are unique to seeds as a reproductive part of the plant cause complications. 

Also, the nightshade family causes problems for most people with autoimmune disease.  

Nightshades are restricted on the Autoimmune Protocol due to high glycoalkaloid content and agglutinin content. They increase gut permeability and act as an adjuvant, exaggerating immune responses.

Spices from the nightshade family (mainly peppers) also contain capsaicin (one of the chemicals that give them heat), a mucus membrane and gut irritant.

Safe Herbs and Spices on the AIP

There are plenty of safe spices to have while on the AIP. (29:35)

However, extracts are not an automatic pass because you're not necessarily getting everything from a plant. Some compounds might be concentrated and or skewed into being unbalanced.

When Sarah talks about "safe spices" she's talking about the whole leaf, flower, root, or bark:

*Vanilla gets a pass because the seeds are so small that they are intact when you consume them, putting vanilla bean (which is not a legume) in the same category as berries.

Moreover, Vanilla and vanilla extract is also okay, provided it's certified gluten-free (often grain alcohol is used).

If it's not a nightshade and comes from bark, root, leaf, or flower, you're good to go!


What to Avoid

There is also a list of spices to avoid altogether, and some you should reintroduce at different stages in the AIP. (59:03)

Early Reintroduction Spices (Berries & Fruit)

  • Allspice: Berry of Pimenta officinalis
  • Star Anise: Fruit of Illicium verum Hook
  • Caraway: Fruit or Carum carvi Maton.
  • Cardamom: Fruit of Elettariacardamomum
  • Juniper: Berry of Juniperus communis
  • Black Pepper: Berry of Piper nigrum
  • White Pepper: Berry of Piper nigrum
  • Green Peppercorns: Berry of Piper nigrum
  • Pink Peppercorns: Berry of Schinus terebinthifolius

Early Reintroduction Spices (Seeds)

  • Anise Seed: Seed of Pimpinella anisum
  • Annatto Seed: Seed of Bixa orellana
  • Black Caraway (Russian Caraway, Black Cumin): Seed of Nigella sativa
  • Celery Seed: Seed of Apium graveolens
  • Coriander Seed: Seed of Coriandrum sativum
  • Cumin Seed: Seed of Cuminum cyminum
  • Dill Seed: Seed of Anethum graveolens/Anethum sowa
  • Fennel Seed: Seed of Foeniculum vulgare
  • Fenugreek: Seed of Trigonellafoenum-graecum
  • Mustard Seed: Seed of Brassica juncea/B. hirta/B. nigra
  • Nutmeg: Seed of Myristica fragrans
  • Poppy Seed: Seed of Papaver somniferum
  • Sesame Seed: Seed of Sesamum indicum

Avoid (Nightshades)

  • Capsicums: Seed of Capsicum spp.
  • Cayenne: Fruit of Capsicum annuum
  • Chili Pepper Flakes: Many Varieties, fruit of Capsicum genus
  • Chili Powder: Blend of fruit of Capsicum genus
  • Curry: A spice mixture typically containing coriander, cumin, fenugreek, and red pepper.
  • Paprika: Fruit of Capsicum spp.
  • Red Pepper: Fruit of Capsicum


Common Spice Blends To Watch Out For

In general, Sarah doesn't recommend against using any spice blends because the ingredients list often doesn't actually say everything in it.

Sarah has no idea where it became okay to say "spices" or "natural flavors" on the labels.

But, here are some common spice blends you might have in your kitchen with components to worry about:

  • Curry Powder: Mixture typically containing coriander, cumin, fenugreek, and red pepper.
  • Chinese 5-Spice: Contains Star Anise, Peppercorns, and Fennel Seed
  • Garam Masala: Contains peppercorns, cumin seeds and cardamom pods
  • Poultry Seasoning: Often contains pepper, nutmeg
  • Steak Seasoning: Usually contains pepper, chili, cumin, and cayenne

What About Brines, Broths and Oils?

For brines, broths, and oils, it really comes down to why we're eliminating this food. And is the thing we're eliminating fat or water-soluble. (1:08:05)

Proteins are water-soluble, so yes, you can get this in broth or brine.

For seed and berry/fruit-based spices, the concern is common food intolerance.

However, you can use these in flavored oils because little to no protein is imparted.

Also, with nightshades, avoid brines, broths, and oils. Glycoalkaloids have a detergent structure and help water and oil mix.


Final Thoughts

When it comes to nightshades, Sarah has not met very many people who have gone all the way through AIP and have successfully reintroduced all nightshades. (1:11:35)

Stacy has met a lot of people who are in denial that nightshades are an issue for them. 

She adds that she was at the stage where, like Sarah, she could have a little nightshade spice every so often. 

Then she got Covid and is a long-hauler. That, mixed with the stress of a pandemic and virtual school, she's been very strict with avoiding nightshades.

She doesn't want to risk undoing all the work she's done by consuming nightshades when her body isn't operating optimally due to her current stress.

But just because nightshades might be an issue for you, that doesn't mean you can never have them ever again.

If eating your mother's curry is an act of self-love and comfort, go ahead and eat it if that's what you want to do. Just know and prepare yourself for a possible flare-up.

If you want to hear what Stacy and Sarah really think about today's show, be sure to join the family on Patreon for some bonus behind the scenes content. 

Thanks so much for listening, and we'll see you next week!

The Whole View, Episode 449: Navigating Shift Work in a Healthy Way

Welcome back to episode 449! (0:28)

There are many people throughout the US and the world with careers that involve working on alternate shifts.

This constant fluctuation in waking and sleeping hours can make navigating shift work difficult since your circadian rhythm never gets the opportunity to fully stabilize.

However, if you work regular shifts like Stacy and Sarah, you can still utilize the techniques in this show for things like jet lag and daylight savings.

Sarah explains that there aren't many differences between jet lag and working alternate shifts because they impact circadian rhythms.

This show was inspired by this listener question:

I have been dialing in my nutrition, activities and sleep and feel so much better for it. But due to my work schedule everytime I come off a rotation of night shifts it takes me 3 days to recover back to my new normal again. I started working 12 hour shifts (7am to 7pm for 4 days then 2 days off. Then 7pm to 7am for 4 nights, then 6 days off to rest).   

It's like having jetlag every 16 days! Is there anything I can do to help and support my body through this? Many thanks,


This is a common issue for many over the last year- specifically front-line workers through the pandemic.

Many thanks to front-line workers and medical staff for their flexibility to be there when we've needed them.

Sarah remembers when this alternation between day shift and night shift was introduced. Before it, people would work days or nights and stick with that one shift all the time.

Balance and fairness are important in the workforce, yes. However, Sarah feels it's important to talk about why having a consistent night shift would be better than going back and forth.

Ideal Circadian Rhythm Entrenchment

Forcing our circadian clock to adapt is harder on our bodies than living out of sync with the sun. (6:40)

Things like bright lights indoors in the evening, not spending enough time outside, eat at weird times or too late, and even over air condition our house during the day can mess with that entrenchment even if we work during the day.

Working a shift that's out of sync with the sun requires us to "overwhelm" the signal we get from the sun.

We can do this by ensuring our sleeping environment is very dark, challenging if we're sleeping during the day.

Double layered blackout curtains can help block out the sun from windows.

Sarah also recommends covering anything with LED lights (especially blue and green) with duct or masking tape.

Temperature shifts are also big signalers to our circadian rhythms. Ensuring our sleeping environment is cold when we're sleeping and warmer can help make navigating shift work easier.

Bright lights can inhibit our body's melatonin production, which signals that it's time for sleep.

Amber-tinted glasses block blue light and can help support sleep.

Even when you're not asleep during your "night," turning off lights, keeping the blinds closed, programable LED lightbulbs and avoiding screens an hour before bed can help you trick your body into thinking it's nighttime.

Stacy and Sarah have talked in past shows about how melatonin is sometimes used for sleep disorders. It also works great for jet lag and shift workers. 

Manage stress since dysregulated cortisol can hinder circadian rhythm entrenchment.

Make sure you're not vitamin D deficient since vitamin D is vital for biorhythms, and if you sleep during the day, you may not be getting enough sunlight.


Navigating Shift Work On Nights Off

Staying on one schedule isn't always practical when you work nights because most of the world operates on daylight hours. (18:45)

Seeing friends and family members and running errands are all things you'd probably do during the day on days off. 

Sarah recommends shopping at the end or beginning of your day, right when the store opens at 7am or before it closes at 7pm.

Meet your friends for your breakfast and dinner, or vice versa, to keep a generally similar schedule to your workdays. 

It is also possible to shift your day partially, say 2-3 hours instead of a full 12 hours. This frees up more time for family activities but not so jarring for your body.

Shift work is often associated as a cause of insomnia due to the constant changing of when we're awake.

Adequate sleep is also tied to insulin production, metabolism, and immune system function!

Shift work impacts sleep quality through disruption of the circadian clock.

If we don't find ways to healthy manage it, it impacts insulin production, metabolism, immune system function, and more.


Navigating Shift Work That Alternates

Sarah turns her focus toward Sophie's situation of constantly switching from days to nights through her workweek. (24:20)

She adds that experiencing 3 days of jet lag for a 12-hour time shift is actually pretty normal-whether it's through changing time zones or work change.

A lot of the studies done on this topic use jet lag as a model. However, it is well understood in the science community that the two are basically the same thing and affect the body in the same way.

You can help your body adjust to the new time is by going outside and have that light signal to jumpstart resetting your clock. 

If you're flying, you can do this by reorienting your time to the time of your destination as soon as you get on the plane. 

You can also use melatonin (higher dose, up around 1mg) for those first few nights.

Make sure you're managing stress! Cortisol has to shift, too, and having dysregulated cortisol, to begin with, makes the transition harder. Vitamin C, omega-3s, and magnesium super helpful here.

If you're going to be shifting back and forth, having a lightbox to use at the breakfast table, no matter what time of the day it is, is an ideal setup. 

It doesn't matter when you exercise, but rather that it's on its own predictable schedule. If you like going to the gym before work, do it before work no matter when your shift starts. 

So if you work out in the morning, keep doing that whenever your "morning" is (aka 6am on day shift days, 6pm on night shift days)

Basically, keep your schedule the same but shift it to 12 hours. 

Meal timing is crucial to shifting, so don't skip breakfast on "jet lag" days. You might feel hungry, but make sure you keep habits and patterns. 

Eat similar size breakfast, lunch, and dinner whichever "time zone" you're in and your same "fasting periods" over at least 12 hours.


Nutrients That Help

Because Sophie has tackled some big nutrition changes, it's essential to look at what roles nutrition can play in navigating shift work in healthy ways. (33:15)

Vitamin D is important for biorhythms, so always take it during your "morning."

Vitamin C, magnesium, and omega-3s all support healthy stress responses, including cortisol rhythms. Extra vitamin C may be helpful due to the increased oxidant formation during jet lag.

Avoid low-carb, low-fat, and low-protein because studies show it can make jet lag worse

Another study suggests that a balanced diet containing carbohydrates, protein, lipids, and vitamins/minerals may be effective for inducing phase shifts in the peripheral circadian clock. 

It also indicates simple diets such as 100% sugar, 100% protein, and 100% oil are inadequate for inducing entrainment signals. 

The gut microbiome also has biorhythms, and 12-14 hours of fasting while you're sleeping are important to regulate it.

We work on things like muscle repair when we're sleeping and less on digestion. This means if we eat too close to bedtime, digesting that food can actually interfere with our ability to enter deep REM.

This means you shouldn't "graze" to keep yourself awake.

Stacy adds that they speak of a "low carb" diet they speak in terms of very low-carb, not what you'd normally get from recommended amounts of fruits and veggies. 

When you're sleep-deprived, one of the first things your body craves is those refined carbohydrates.

Filling that craving with fruits and veggies can balance hormones and get you back into a healthy rhythm.


Symptom Management

It's important to recognize that a few days of that jet lag feel will be pretty normal regardless. (43:35)

Some caffeine in your "morning" is okay. However, be careful not to overdo it or to take it too late in the day.

There's many studies showing how great power naps are for improving cognitive performance and energy without taking away from nighttime sleep. These are naps between 10 to 30 minutes long naps to stay in Stage 1 and Stage 2 sleep. 

You need at least 3 minutes of stage 2 sleep for them to work. If you get into Stage 3, you'll know it by feeling groggy when you wake. 

Make sure not to rely on sugar or snacking as a crutch to stay awake as they will prolong the feeling of jet lag long-term.

Activity can keep up energy levels, so make sure you're getting enough regular exercise. Just be sure that the first day's activity doesn't require great judgment since you might be tired.


Final Thoughts

Stacy revisits the importance of breakfast and how eating shortly after we wake up can signal our bodies that it's time to wake up. (47:45)

Sarah references these two shows: Intermittent Fasting and Is Breakfast the Most Important Meal of the Day?

Instead of taking energy shots or drinking a lot of caffeine, add daylight and liver pills to your regimen.

Anything that happens inside our bodies uses energy, so ensuring we give our bodies things they can use to make that energy is crucial to optimally functioning.

Supplements are great, but getting nutrients from whole foods is better (i.e., liver pills).

If you've yet to join the Patreon family, pop over for more behind the scenes. Patreon gives you access to how Sarah and Stacy really feel about these topics and supports shows like this one that aren't sponsored.

Thanks so much for listening, and we will see you next week!


The Whole View, Episode 448: Marijuana and Gut Health

Welcome back to episode 448! (0:28)

Sarah and Stacy have done shows on the topic of marijuana and wellness, including CBDCBD for pets, and pain management

This show is sponsored by One Farm, both Sarah and Stacy's favorite CBD brands.

One Farm's goal is to create the highest quality hemp extract on the market.

Their products are made with the best hemp, grown organically in the perfect climate, extracted without toxic solvents, and mixed with quality ingredients.

One Farm and their handling/processing facility are USDA Organic, which very few companies have.

By controlling everything from seed to shelf, One Farm gives you the assurance that everything they make is from our USDA Certified Organic hemp, lovingly raised, cultivated, and processed 100% by One Farm in Colorado.

Stacy notes that they also 3rd party test every batch that comes out of their USDA Certified lab.

Use the code WHOLEVIEW at checkout to receive 15% off your order!

Listener Question on Marijuana and Gut Health:

Today's question about Marijuana and gut health comes from Dana (6:15):

"I love focusing on gut health. I've read your books plus Dr. Terry Wahls books. I rely on cannabis to help me manage some of the residual MS symptoms I have while I work on healing my body. I am greatly aware of the risk of developing CHS as it has been on the rise in the Medical marijuana community here in Portland. It's terrifying to know that something that helps us so much, can harm us too.

My question: How does THC affect the gut and gut motility? How can we prevent CHS medical users who use regularly and sometimes heavily to help manage our diseases? There isn't a lot of research I've found surrounding the effects of thc on the gut. I know it can slow down gut motility, but how much is too much and is there a way to counteract this effect? Does CBD have the same effect as thc on the gut or is it different? Can they work together in the gut to create a safer gut effect versus using a higher thc ratio?

Ratios are big in the medical world. We rely heavily on the science we are presented in regards to the best ratios for our specific disease. There needs to be more talk on the potential risks of cannabis and how to lower our chances of developing something like CHS since so many of us meet the criteria of being at high risk of developing it. Would love to hear your thoughts on this. Seriously. Thank you."


CHS: Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome

As Sarah explains, CHS is a very rare syndrome that occurs in long-term, heavy users of THC-rich cannabis. (7:50)

It was only first reported in medical literature in 2004.

The reported symptoms include nausea, vomiting, and abdominal pain. Also, they are episodic, lasting for 24 to 48 hours, and not returning for several weeks or months.  

More than 90% of cannabis users who experience these symptoms also have a compulsion to bathe in hot water during the episode. 

This is often what helps doctors and patients determine CHS as the cause.

Sarah adds that vomiting can be severe and can leave CHS patients extremely dehydrated, acidosis, decreased serum bicarbonate, acute renal failure, and damage to the esophagus. 

Because cannabis is usually known to help keep nausea and vomiting at bay, these users may end up using cannabis to keep the CHS symptoms at bay.

Hyperemesis symptoms are very resistant, and typical antiemetics, such as ondansetron and promethazine, don't work. The treatment of choice is abstinence for a prolonged period.

The only other effective treatment currently is IM injection with Haloperidol (normally used to treat schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorders, and Tourette syndrome) or Olanzapine (normally used to treat schizophrenia and bipolar disorder).

Because of the use of antipsychotics, this suggests it's not working through the "normal" ways that induce vomiting.

That it's something more related to the central nervous system and not the GI tract.


The Difference Between THC and CBD

Sarah believes it's critical to look at the differences between THC and CBD to see why CHS is rising. (13:15)

Both THC and CBD are plant chemicals that interact with the endocannabinoid system, an ancient lipid signaling system. It mediates between our emotional and physical reactions to pain. 

THC is the most abundant chemical in cannabis. It's also the cannabinoid responsible for the sense of euphoria or "high" that comes from using the plant. 

CBD is the second most abundant chemical and doesn't have the same psychoactive effects as THC. 

The difference comes down to how each chemical binds with different receptors in our bodies and activates them.

CBD binds but doesn't activate, which is why you don't get the same sense of euphoria as THC. 

Instead, it appears to modulate or adjust how the receptors respond to stimulation from other compounds.

THC creates mental status changes, motor function, memory, and body temperature by interacting with CB1 and CB2 receptors. This can manifest as euphoria accompanied by increased heart rate, anxiety, hunger, and eventually sleepiness.


CBD does not have psychoactive effects for most people or very weak effects on sensitive people. (17:30)

Instead is associated with:

  • Neuroprotective
  • Anti-inflammatory
  • Antioxidant
  • Analgesic 
  • Antipsychotic
  • Anti-anxiety & antidepressant

As we talked about in TWV Podcast Episode 420: CBD for Pain Management, both THC and CBD have been shown to reduce pain.

Both CBD and THC also have strong antiemetic effects.

Also, THC increases appetite and can have a sedating effect useful for insomnia.

Because of the combo of increasing appetite and decreasing nausea, cannabis is often used by cancer patients when they're undergoing chemotherapy.

High-THC Marijuana And Gut Health

Stacy adds that the drug industry has actually altered these plants and bred them to yield higher THC concentrations. (20:01)

The decreasing levels of CBD are an unintended consequence of that practice. 

In the old days of finding wild marijuana, THC and CBD's typical levels would be about 50/50. 

In the 1990s, typical "joints" contained 1–3 mg of THC. The typical joint in Colorado now contains 18 mg of THC or more.

Also, Emergency room patients have self-reported smoking up to 2,000 mg or more of THC in a day.

Higher potency products are associated with an increased risk for CHS and an increased risk for psychosis and other types of weed sickness, such as Cannabis Use Disorder.

However, CHS is still considered a pretty care complication.


What Are the Chances of Developing CHS?

About 75% of CHS cases report daily or more than daily cannabis users, most of the remaining use at least weekly, very few cases are less often than that. (25:50)

Sarah adds that there aren't many good epidemiological studies out there right now. But there are a lot of case reports and series to look at for data. 

About ⅔ of patients diagnosed with CHS have been using cannabis for at least 2 years before symptom onset.

So far, CHS cases' demographics reflect the demographics of cannabis users, so it doesn't look like any particular population is at greater risk.

So, this increase likely reflects increased use. A study that investigated trends of marijuana use between 2002 and 2014 indicated that prevalence is increasing among both men and women. 

Data from the US national survey on drug use and health show that 12.4 million men and 7.7 million women used marijuana in 2002. This number increased to 18.4 million men and 11.7 million women in 2014. 

Sarah notes that we're not quite sure why some people who use cannabis daily develop the condition and others don't.

Current estimates are that 12% of Americans are active cannabis users.

Another study showed that CHS sufferers had to seek medical attention an average of 7 times before getting diagnosed.

Sarah does this quick math: 

  • This would place CHS risk for near-daily to daily users of cannabis anywhere between about 0.2% and 1%. (1 in 100 to 1 in 500)
  • The risk for more casual users would be much, much, much lower, using the same back of the envelope math, about 0.003% (1 in 30,000)

A similar study in Colorado showed the incidence of CHS about doubled after legalization of cannabis.

What Does It Mean?

Medical marijuana is on the ride in many areas. Stacy wonders about the implications this could have on health.

Sarah reminds listeners that this is very rough data. She did very rough math to give everyone a general idea of how common this complication.

She also dug deep, looking for similar health issues caused by high-CBD use, and found one paper so far with very little data listed.

Sarah found a narrative article that mentions it can very rarely be seen with high CBD use, but not a single published case study to look at. So, it's unclear if the claim is actually true.

In fact, there's a postulation that increasing CBD could protect against CHS. The combination of high THC and low CBD in high-potency cannabis is driving whatever maladaptation is behind CHS.

The Mechanisms Behind CHS

Sarah explains that, so far, no good quality data pointing to exactly what is causing CHS. 

Cannabinoids may bind to CB-1 receptors in the gastrointestinal tract and decrease GI motility and gastric emptying. This may override brainstem-mediated antiemetic effects and precipitate hyperemesis. [9, 92, 95, 132]

Chronic cannabis use leads to desensitization and downregulation of CB1 receptors that ordinarily have peripheral antiemetic effects. This causes rebound vomiting and spasmodic pain that abates with abstinence and corresponding recovery of CB-1 receptor activity. [98, 136, 185]

In chronic cannabis users, cannabinoid metabolites may accumulate in the brain and fatty tissues, inducing a toxic effect. [90, 94]

Patients susceptible to developing CHS may have a genetic variation in their metabolic enzymes resulting in toxic levels of cannabinoid metabolites [131]

THC may act as a partial agonist on CB1 receptors and thus relatively antagonize the effects of full endogenous agonists on these receptors. This would precipitate sudden withdrawal and hyperemesis in sensitive patients. [97, 105]

THC causes dilation of splanchnic vasculature, resulting in CHS. Hot bathing leads to peripheral vasodilation and shunts blood away from the splanchnic bed, resulting in symptom improvement. [102, 137]

Marijuana and Gut Health

Stacy adds that if you live in an area where marijuana is legal, people who work in the shops that sell it are educated on the topics and can point you to what will work best for your needs. (46:30)

Sarah underlines that she doesn't want this show to scare away anyone from using CBD that might benefit CBD.

Results show normalization of overall appetite and increased/decreases in some circumstances. It also shows a reduction preference for fatty foods- especially polyunsaturated fats. 

It's also believed to relieve diarrhea and abdominal pain, improve appetite in IBD, reduce inflammation and histamine in the gut, prevent mast cells from releasing histamine, and reduce intestinal inflammation in various models and humans.

Data also suggests that THC and CBD's use improves gut barrier health and reduces intestinal permeability in a variety of models.

The Gut Microbiome

The blocking endocannabinoid system causes gut dysbiosis and endotoxemia.

2015 mouse study showed THC reduced weight gain, fat mass gain, and energy intake in Diet-Induced Obese but not lean mice.

This 2019 mouse study showed THC and CBD could improve experimental MS (reducing inflammation and clinical signs of paralysis) with effects at least partly mediated via improvements to the gut microbiome, preventing dysbiosis normally associated with MS.

Another 2020 study used CBD plus fish oil in the mouse model of colitis and showed that CBD and fish oil had small benefits. However, both had additive benefits when used together, including reducing inflammation, reducing intestinal permeability, and improving the gut microbiome. 

More of Sarah's Citations:

Epidemiology of cannabis use:


CHS Review articles:

CBD and Gut Health


Final Thoughts

When Sarah looks at all this data together, she definitely feels it's worth having a conversation with your healthcare provider if you're planning to use marijuana for medial purposes. (57:22)

Sarah and Stacy are big fans of CBD for its diverse benefits. And that it doesn’t have the problems associated with chronic cannabis use.

Thank you to One Farm for not only sponsoring this show but having a trustworthy and high-quality product.  

Stacy adds that she's so appreciative of their third-party testing because that's not a practice that's regulated.

If you've not yet joined the Patreon family and want to know how Stacy and Sarah really feel about this topic, hop over for more bonus content and stories.

Thank you for listening!

Welcome to episode 447 of The Whole View! This week, Stacy and Sarah

If you enjoy the show, please review it on iTunes!

The Whole View, Episode 447: Basic Needs Don’t Count as Self-Care

Welcome back to episode 447! (0:28)

Stacy kicks off this show by speaking about this article about women's tendencies (especially moms) to put others' needs above their own.

This often takes the form of attributing "self-care" status to activities that fill a bare-minimum, basic need.

Taking a hot shower or going on a quiet trip to the store without the kids isn't going to fill your cup and allow you to pour more into others. 

Sarah laughs that a part of her wants to clap her hands over her ears and not listen.

If any listeners feel similar ways, like if you don't call the bare minimum stuff self-care, then can't call anything you do self-care, Sarah wants you to know you are not alone.

Stacy adds that in Sarah's defense, there is a lot of things that she does she might not realize count as self-care.

For example, Sarah spends a lot of time with her dog, going for walks and training, That's something Sarah does out of pure enjoyment that recharges her.

Stacy explains that what self-care looks like is different for all of us. It's not just facials and massages. It's what makes you feel full and refreshed.

If you can't love yourself, how are you going to love somebody else?

-Ru Paul

If you don't take time to fill your cup up and love yourself, how can you love and take care of someone else?

Stacy knows she's am a better mother, wife, and friend to other people when she's taken care of herself and not at the precipice of losing her patience. 

Doing something that's not draining is different than doing something restorative.

Types of Self-Care

Stacy breaks down self-care into four different types, and that they don't have to be the cliche versions to count as self-care. (12:01)

Stacy challenges listeners to really think about what outcome has them feeling lighter and better?

It might not necessarily feel like something that's self-care upfront. Maybe it makes you feel a little uncomfortable at the moment. But it also might be something fully restorative to you. 


Mind: Emotional Self-Care

Stress is incredibly inflammatory and can negatively impact your health if you're not effectively managing it. (20:13)

Mental health is so important. It's often one of the most overlooked ways of giving yourself love because of the stigmas attached to them.  

Stacy asks the audience to remember that even the healthiest of minds need a break and help. 

If you're a frequent listener, you probably know how much Stacy struggles with the idea of meditation. 

However, science shows meditation can rewire the connectivity between different brain areas, limit the overactive flight-or-fight response, and help regulate our hormones. 

If guided mediation just isn't your thing, there are alternatives you can try. 

Sarah shares that she's much more comfortable with breathing exercises than she is with gratitude meditation. It's not one size fits all, and there are many different shades and colors of it!

In Episode 432: Giving Thanks, Stacy and Sarah dig deeper into meditation's science and practice. 

It can seem a little ridiculous, but it really is a great way to reflect on mindset while focusing on wellness!

If you haven't already, you should check out Stacy's favorite show, Episode 421: Body Image

Stacy's said it before, and she repeats it now: there is nothing wrong with asking for help. 

Talk therapy is a great way to decompress the everyday stresses of life. It allows us to target and work on any toxic traits we're harboring that can sabotage our self-care efforts. 

If you're unsure where to start, Stacy explains one avenue is to get a referral from your primary care physician. There are also many online counselors and apps specifically designed to help!

Self-acceptance is vital to good self-care.

Stacy shares how difficult it can be to accept your body when you feel like it's failing you due to autoimmune issues. But beating yourself up about things you can't control won't help you feel any better. 


Body: Loving Your Physical Self

Move your body! Health is so much more than BMI or the number on the scale. (36:15)

Science has shown that BMI is actually more inaccurate than it is correct. Many thin people have health issues, and many overweight people do not! 

Moving your body is an act of self-love because it's good for you – but also because it makes you feel good.

Stacy reminds listeners that what we put inside our bodies is just as important as what we put on the outside.

Sarah advises listeners to do it because they like it and they like doing it. 

There are foods that nourish our bodies, and there are foods that nourish our souls. Respecting yourself enough to prioritize both is self-care.

A great place to start is gut-healing with a broad range of macronutrients from a nutrivore approach!

Getting enough sleep is crucial to taking care of yourself. 

Do what you need to fully relax your mind and enjoy deep restorative sleep. It is when your cells replenish themselves. 

Those with poor sleep patterns are at high risk for a myriad of health conditions – so, taking a nap and going to be early is the ultimate act of self-love!


Interpersonal: Your Relationship with Other

This is the one both Stacy and Sarah struggle with the m0st, which is your connection with others. (43:01) 

Stacy shares her personal experiences with Zoom fatigue and trying to turn off her phone to disconnect.

Working on interpersonal health means occasionally unplugging from a screen whenever you can, but not unplugging from people. 

Voxer or Marco Polo are free apps where you can leave short or long voice and video messages for an individual or a group. 

It's the perfect way to let out a vent of frustration or a primal scream to a trusted friend. You aren't uninterrupted, and the friend gets to listen when it is convenient for them. 

Stacy uses it for both personal and work purposes.

Take intentional screen breaks. Playing games, baking, watering the plants, and working on re-arranging the house are ways to disconnect online and connect with people in our lives.

Sarah also unplugs from 8am-8pm, so she has 12 hours of uninterrupted time. She doesn't use her phone on her morning hikes and uses that as a time to unplug.

Also, it's important to take time this week to schedule your annual appointments. It's so easy for those in a primary caregiver role to put their own wellness aside, but so important to keep upon.

Setting boundaries is critical to self-care. 

No one can read your mind. If you aren't telling people what you need, you can't expect them to give it to you.

Sarah adds that it is often even helpful for the other people in our lives when we make boundaries. When you set that expectation, they don't need to worry about how to act. 


Personal: The Things That Bring Joy

If you're an extrovert, this part could have been hit hard by quarantine if your hobbies involved going out in public and doing things. (58:01)

But there are small ways that you can bring that deeper connection to your soul through intentional practices!

Personal self-care means doing things that you enjoy just because they bring you joy. 

Plus, hobbies are great ways to cope with stress and trauma in life. Stacy shares 

She also decided to get back into houseplants during the quarantine. It's one way she can intentionally focus positive energy on something. It gives her an avenue when she needs a pick-me-up.

Stacy and Sarah both love playing with their pets and have talked at length in the past about how great pets can be for mental health.


Final Thoughts

Self-care is something that's been really hard for scientists to define. (1:03:14)

Science defines it most in terms of the stress response and how that response impacts our overall health. 

In its essence, self-care is reversing that stress response to reign it in and turn it off. 

Having a regulated stress response positively impacts the body in terms of hormones, gut health, tension, and more!

Self-care allows us to regain mental space for the important things in life. 

Stacy reminds listeners that self-care is suggestive, and a restorative activity for one person might not be restorative for you. 

Be sure to pop over to Patreon for some bonus content about this episode! And to hear how Sarah really feels about all this.

The Whole View, Episode 446: Nutrient Deficiencies Caused by Stress

Welcome back to episode 446! (0:28)

This show is a direct follow-up to last week, where Stacy and Sarah talked about supplementing while on AIP and the philosophies that couple different strategies together.

In that episode, Sarah mentioned certain nutrients, such as Magnesium and Vitamin C, which depleted during times of chronic stress.

Paleovalley also has a great Central C Complex, a great source of Vitamin C, and they agreed to sponsor this show!

Stacy shares that she uses many products from Paleovalley and highly recommends this brand because they make their products from Whole Foods.

Studies have shown that supplementing with Vitamin C can support a healthy stress response, which in turn can help improve sleep, regulate appetite, improve immune function, lower cardiovascular disease risk, improve depressive and anxiety symptoms, and even reduce migraine headaches! 

Nearly half of Americans aren't getting enough daily! Plus, infection, inflammation, and stress all increase our vitamin C needs.

Why PaleoValley?

Sarah and Stacy both love and regularly use Paleovalley products. (7:35) 

Paleovalley's complex uses three food-based vitamin C sources: unripe acerola cherry, camu camu berry, and amla berry. This means you get the full spectrum of nutrients, minerals, and bioflavonoids from Whole Foods. 

Food-based vitamin C has concurrent phytonutrients that make this type of vitamin C up to 2.5X more bioavailable.

Even though it's bioidentical to non-synthetic Vitamin C, many people with sensitivities to corn aren't able to take synthetic vitamin C. 

Paleovalley uses no synthetic (GMO corn-derived) vitamin C in their complex! Plus, there are no wonky fillers, and it uses a simple gelatin capsule.

Review of the Stress Response

Stacy expresses how excited she is for Sarah to get into what exactly she's been putting her body through all these years! (8:04)

Sarah and Stacy did a deep dive into how chronic stress impacts health in TPV Podcast Episode 351: Stress on Health.

A stressor is a chemical or biological agent, environmental condition, external stimulus, or event that activates the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA axis) and releases stress hormones.


  • Physical (e.g., injury, a vigorous workout, sitting for prolonged periods, not getting enough sleep, extreme environmental temperatures)
  • Sensory (e.g., loud noises, too-bright lights, overcrowding)
  • Chemical (e.g., tobacco, alcohol, drugs, allergens)
  • Psychological (e.g., deadlines, traffic, bills, societal and family demands)

This is responsible for our fight-or-flight response caused by complex communication between three organs:

  • The hypothalamus: The part of the brain located just above the brain stem. It's responsible for the autonomic nervous sys­tem, such as regulating body temperature, hunger, thirst, fatigue, sleep, and circadian rhythms.
  • The pituitary gland: A pea-shaped gland located below the hypothalamus. It secretes hormones, such as thyroid-stimulating hormone, human growth hormone, and adreno­corticotropic hormone.
  • The adrenal glands: Small, conical organs on top of the kidneys. It secretes hormones, such as cortisol, epinephrine (also known as adren­aline), norepinephrine, and androgens.

This response helped our early ancestors pay closer attention, run away faster, or jumpstart healing in times of crisis.

It also reduces the effectiveness of bodily functions the body aren't crucial to survival in that moment, such as our digestive or reproduction systems.

Nutrient Deficiencies Caused by Stress in the Modern Era 

Sarah explains that the body doesn't differentiate between types of stress.

So when we experience acute stress over long periods, such as at our jobs or physical stress, our body is constantly shutting down those "non-necessary" functions because it's in chronic survival mode.

In modern life, when we never have a break from stress where our bodies can return to baseline, we suffer from what's called "chronic stress."

The brain borrows hormones from other functions to make things we need in a crisis. All of that together is why chronic stress is so problematic to lifelong health.

If we're chronically stressed, we're constantly using up key nutrients we need to perform their normal jobs in our body.

Lifestyle factors are very important to managing chronic stress and nutrient replenishment, and getting enough sleep.

Anxiety is a consequence of chronic stress. Chronic stress can also increase the risk of depression, cardiovascular disease, obesity, diabetes, autoimmune diseases, chronic headaches, memory problems, digestive problems, infections, and poor wound healing. 

Plus, chronic stress influences other behaviors, influencing our food choices (due to cravings for energy-dense foods and increased appetite). This can make us more vulnerable to addiction.

Sarah references these shows for more information on anxiety:

Nutrient Deficiencies Caused by Stress

When Sarah talks about nutrient deficiencies caused by stress, she means normal, run-of-the-mill chronic stress, not the mental health challenges that can arise from chronic stress. (19:30)

She also recommends this review paper for more information on the effects of stress on the body:

Sarah decides to start with the nutrients with the most evidence of depletion by the stress response.


More than three hundred different enzymes in your cells need magnesium to work. 

This includes every enzyme that uses or synthesizes ATP and including enzymes that synthesize DNA and RNA. 

It is also a constituent of bones and teeth, is important for neuromuscular contractions, and is necessary for testosterone and progesterone production. 

It is important for the metabolism of phosphorus, calcium, potassium, sodium, B-complex vitamins, and vitamins C and E. 

Magnesium is also a cofactor in methylation and is necessary for detoxification functions.

Numerous animal studies showed that serum reduced magnesium concentration and increased urinary magnesium excretion in animals exposed to acute and chronic stress. Studies in humans show the same thing.

2006 study reported increased urinary magnesium excretion in university students during their examination period compared with the beginning of their academic term, correlating with self-reported anxiety.

Another study conducted in 2000 showed significant decreases in plasma ionized magnesium and total magnesium concentrations in young volunteers exposed to chronic stress or subchronic stress. 

In a 2015 study designed to simulate a Mars mission, a 6-man crew was kept in isolation. The study recorded numbers of all magnesium measures with the biggest effect between days 0 and 30. 

Similar studies have shown magnesium reduction in response to sleep deprivation stress, physical stress (marathons), and environmental stress (loud noise for 4 hours).

Sarah sums up that magnesium depletion shows the same results no matter what kind of stressor is triggering it.

If you're looking for more information about magnesium, Stacy and Sarah did a whole show on it!

Vitamin C

Vitamin C is mainly an antioxidant and an enzyme cofactor. (28:00)

As an antioxidant, vitamin C is essential in protecting proteins, lipids, carbohydrates, nucleic acids, and more from damage by free radicals and reactive oxygen species.

Vitamin C is also used as an enzyme cofactor to generate critical compounds for joint and bone health, such as collagen. Plus, it helps to generate neurotransmitters like dopamine and serotonin!

Vitamin C's role as an enzyme cofactor is likely why it's so important for the stress response due to cortisol and catecholamines production. 

The main catecholamines are epinephrine (adrenaline), norepinephrine (noradrenaline), and dopamine.

Adrenal glands store A LOT of vitamin C. (source

An important 2007 study in humans showed that ACTH causes adrenal glands to secrete vitamin C and cortisol. 

It's thought that this release of vitamin C helps protect the brain from the behavioral effects of stress by preventing maladaptations (like anxiety and depression).


Zinc is the second most abundant metal in the body. It has many important roles, including nearly every cellular function. (37:07)

It is essential for the "reading" of the DNA map to make proteins. And it controls gene expression and communication within cells and the production of proteins. 

It is important for the absorption and activity of B vitamins, required for muscle contraction, and needed in insulin and testosterone production. 

Collagen formation, a healthy immune system, and the body's ability to heal from wounds also depend on zinc. 

It also plays a role in skin health and maintaining sensory organs (which links zinc deficiency with loss of smell and taste) and is a vital nutrient for immune system function. 

Several animal studies show that chronic stress decreases serum zinc concentrations and some tissue-specific zinc stores.

Sarah adds that there aren't many human studies, but general data shows similar findings.

1991 study measured plasma zinc concentrations before and after 5 days of sustained stress in Navy SEAL trainees ("Hell Week"). Plasma zinc levels decreased by 33% at the end of the 5 days but returned to baseline 7 days later. 

There have been similar decreases in zinc measured in released POWs.

There is an even larger body of evidence with physical stress, like endurance sports.


Iron is a critical component of hemoglobin. This is a protein in red blood cells responsible for carrying oxygen from the lungs to cells in the body. (44:20)

Heme is a critical component of a family of proteins involved in protection from oxidative damage. 

Iron is also needed to metabolize B vitamins, is a necessary cofactor for various enzymes, and is important in protein metabolism. 

Animal studies show chronic stress can decrease serum iron concentrations, ferritin, whole blood iron concentration, and hemoglobin. Sarah adds there are limited studies in humans.

In that same Navy Seal study, iron concentrations decreased by 44%. Ferritin concentrations increased by 59% after 5 days of Hell Week. 

And a 2018 study of maternal perceived stress during pregnancy showed an increased risk for low neonatal iron at delivery and storage iron depletion at one year. 

In physical stress, a 1990 study showed decreased ferritin. 

However, studies in trained athletes don't show this. This indicates that there's some sort of adaptation to increased physical fitness.


In addition to forming bone, calcium is essential to many processes, including neurotransmitter release and muscle contraction. (48:15)

Calcium also helps to regulate the constriction/relaxation of blood vessels, nerve impulses, muscle contraction, and secretion of hormones like insulin.

Sarah reminds listeners that bones are remodeled continuously throughout our lives. A hormone called parathyroid hormone (PTH) closely regulates the amount of calcium in our blood. 

It does this by occasionally "borrowing" calcium from bones that will hopefully get deposited back if there is enough calcium intake. In this case, there are more robust human data than animal studies.

Previously mentioned 2000 study of young volunteers exposed to chronic stress showed significant decreases in plasma calcium concentrations.

In the previously mentioned Mars simulation study, total serum calcium concentrations decreased by 16% from baseline after 30 days of isolation. It then stabilized at these lower concentrations during the remaining 75 days.

Niacin (B3)

Vitamin B3 is a water-soluble B complex vitamin and used in all cellular metabolism within our mitochondria. (53:30)

We need it to produce energy from any macronutrient (fat, protein, or carbohydrate). 

Specifically, vitamin B3 is necessary for oxidation-reduction reactions, which involves transferring electrons across a membrane in the mitochondria. 

Plus, B3 is used to produce many molecules important for health (like cholesterol and L-carnitine), which is important for lipid metabolism specifically.

Vitamin B3 helps improve circulation, aids the body in manufacturing various stress and sex hormones, and suppresses inflammation.

One study identified the effects of cold exposure, calculation exercise, and dark exposure on niacin metabolism in female adults. 

Cold exposure significantly increased the urinary excretory output of niacin metabolites, although no change in urinary niacin concentrations was found after exposure to mental or emotional stress.


Nutrient Deficiencies that Magnify Stress

Sarah moves away from nutrient deficiencies caused by stress for a moment to talk about deficiencies that can actually magnify stress. (56:56)

If you don't have these to start with and are then exposed to stress, results show it can make stress worse.


2018 study associated HPA-axis dysregulation with lower n-3 PUFA, especially DHA, plasma levels. 

Another separate 2017 study confirms this is specific to DHA, not EPA, and EPA supplementation did not reduce stress levels.

2004 study showed DHA supplement has an adaptogenic effect on stress. A significant reduction in perceived stress is supplemented with 6 g of fish oil containing 1.5 g per day DHA, while the placebo group is supplemented with olive oil. 

Stacy and Sarah have talked about omega-3 supplementation specifically in episode TWV Podcast Episode 415: Fish oil, Healthy or not?

Vitamin C

Sarah explains that the link between vitamin C and stress is a two-way street. (59:35)

Guinea pigs made deficient in vitamin C hyper-secrete cortisol (source).

Another study in rats showed vitamin C (equivalent to 2-3 grams in people) blunted cortisol secretion in response to stress (source).

Supplementation of ascorbic acid in humans is associated with a decreased cortisol response after a psychological or physical stressor (source)

Also, Vitamin C deficiency is widely associated with stress-related diseases! (source) 

Several reports have suggested a relationship between behavior under stress and ascorbic acid. 

2015 study in high-school students with anxiety, given 500mg vitamin C daily or placebo, showed a reduction in perceived stress and heart rate.

Sarah briefly covers several more studies referenced here:

Sarah adds that higher vitamin C levels increase cognition, and it doesn't matter if it's by food or supplement!

Vitamin C is on Both Sides of the Equation!

Vitamin C is so important because it both regulates the stress response and is depleted by stress. So low Vitamin C can become a snowball of badness.

Also, nearly half of Americans aren't getting enough daily! Plus, infection, inflammation, and stress all increase our vitamin C needs.

Although synthetic and food-derived vitamin C is chemically identical, fruit and vegetables are rich in numerous nutrients and phytochemicals, which may influence its bioavailability.

Sarah briefly covers several other studies referenced here for more information:


Final Thoughts

Stacy tells listeners that there will be more bonus content on this topic over on their Patreon channel. (1:05:01)

So for anyone curious as to what Stacy and Sarah really think about nutrient deficiencies caused by stress, it's definitely worth checking out on Patreon. 

She also thanks Paleovalley for sponsoring this week's show.

Be sure to check out their vitamin C complex and bone broth proteins - both of which are Stacy's and Sarah's favorites.

Stacy reminds the audience that many vitamin C products use corn-sourced products. She is sensitive to that, and finding Paleovalley's supplements was a blessing.

She and Sarah only partner with brands that they love, use, and are confident in recommending.

Stacy adds they she loves their organ complex and meat sticks as well! 

The Whole View, Episode 445: What Supplements to Take on the AIP?

Welcome back to episode 445! (0:28)

This week is all about supporting your health from the perspective of what you can control. And what you can work with medical professionals on to optimize your own health as much as possible.

Specifically, Stacy and Sarah will be discussing supplements on the autoimmune protocol (AIP) or have been previously and are now in more of a maintenance mode.

Stacy remembers when she first encountered coming across this topic while struggling with digestive issues.

She was not absorbing anything from the food she was ingesting. This caused her to have to re-nourish herself through the use of supplements.

She reminds listeners that what they go over in this show is not har-and-fast. As situations, health, and age change, your needs will change as well.

Both Stacy and Sarah are not medical professionals. So be sure to touch base with your doctor when taking your health into your own hands.

Sarah shares a comment from a member of the Patreon family that she feels sums up the approach she and Stacy takes toward this show.

Today's Sponsor

One of Stacy and Sarah's favorite supplement brands, Just Thrive, agreed to sponsor today's show! (2:30)

They are currently offering Whole View listeners 15% off their order using code THEWHOLEVIEW or you can follow the link above.

Bacillus bacteria are particularly important for gut health, even creating an environment where other probiotic species (like the Lactobacillus in sauerkraut) can thrive. 

Historically, we were exposed to Bacillus in dirt, but in our modern, sterile environments, Just Thrive probiotic has got us covered (no eating dirt necessary!). 

Not only is Just Thrive a potent probiotic, but it also contains a novel strain, Bacillus indicus (HU36), that produces antioxidants and vitamins right inside of the intestines, including lycopene, lutein, astaxanthin, zeaxanthin, beta-carotene, B vitamins, and vitamin K2! 

It can help people with IBS symptoms, digestion, infection, healthy gut, cholesterol, and so much more.

The individual Bacillus strains delivered by Just Thrive have been extensively studied; plus, the good folks behind Just Thrive have published a human clinical trial showing these strains can reduce leaky gut. 

They have 11 other human clinical trials ongoing, which is incredible to see in the supplement industry.

Other shows sponsored by Just Thrive worth checking out:

Other shows on supplements:


Listener Question: 

A follow-up question from a previous show on Vitamin D inspired the topic of today's show.  (12:42).

Listener Sarah says:

I am wondering what vitamin D supplement you recommend? When starting aip I was still taking my regular one but realized it had soy in it. I just listened to the vitamin D episode and realize how important it is for skin health. I need to get a new one and wanted to see what you recommend. I'm already doing Vital Proteins collagen, zinc, and fermented cod liver oil supplements. Anything else you recommend? I'm 3 weeks in and feel a lot better!! But I do miss eggs, chocolate, and rice cooked with homemade broth the most!! I love your podcast so much and get to listen to podcasts while I sew for my job all day!! You girls really made the day go by fast with your puns and science! Thanks for all the knowledge!

Sarah adds that she believes puns to be the highest form of humor and is glad that (listener) Sarah also enjoys them. 

First, it's worth mentioning that Stacy and Sarah no longer endorse or recommend Vital Proteins collagen. (See Episode 430 for the details.)

Stacy mentions that the formula change in Vital Proteins, depending on listener Sarah's situation, might negatively affect her if she's trying to eliminate gluten contaminants from her diet. 

Stacy also recommends a broth alternative that might help scratch that broth and rice itch!

Sarah starts off by letting listeners know that there are many soy-free Vitamin D supplements out on the market. 

She wants to take Sarah's question and really talk about supplements on the AIP because it's gets asked a very common question.

Taking Supplements While On AIP

Sarah breaks supplements while on AIP into four different categories. (18:25)

She reiterates Stacy's point at the beginning of the show that there's no one-size-fits-all approach to this or any specific list you should be taking while on AIP. 

It all comes down to you and your body as an individual.

1. Missing From Modern Food Supply

This category is all about providing things that are really hard to get from our modern-day food supply. (19:00)

Sarah explains that our modern food supply is actually quite depleted of vitamins and minerals than at other parts in history. 

Produce we get from grocery stores could have half the amount of minerals than what we would have bought 50 or so years ago. This she attributes to the depletion of soil over time.

A lot of this can be remedied by buying high-quality, organic if you can afford to. Or even buying locally grown. 

The better quality dirt produce is grown in and the better quality food the animals consume all play into how much nutrients end up in the products we buy from the store. 

Also, our food is washed so thoroughly before it makes it to the shelves. 

Natural sources for many nutrients, such as bacillus bacteria, are from dirt!

Historically, this is something we would have gotten much more easily due to smaller industries and more home-grown dependencies. 

Just Thrive probiotics are things we would have been exposed to originally that we just aren't getting from our modern food supply.

2. Food-Based Supplements For Nutrient-Dense Superfoods

These are nutrients from superfoods that some might have barriers against getting enough of. (23:10)

Stacy and Sarah have talked extensively about bone broth in the past as something that people are not getting enough of. 

Sarah poses the question of what options you have if you don't like the idea of consuming bone broth or organ meat to get those nutrients. 

Paleovalley is another trusted resource of Stacy and Sarah. They make a great Bone Broth Protein and Organ Complex for consumers looking to supplement those nutrients rather than directly to the source. 

Smidge Liver Pills is another organ supplement that Sarah highly recommends.

Sarah has noticed it's been a lot more difficult to get organ meat during the pandemic. She has relied on supplements much more this last year. 

Stacy also notes that she switched to Paleovalley organ complex a few months ago. She likes how diverse the supplement was.

Sarah and Stacy talked in depth about the benefit of seafood from a nutrient stand-point in Episode 415: Fish oil, Healthy or not? 

Some people, however, don't like or can't eat seafood. For them, Sarah recommends OysterZinc or Cod Liver Oil.

In Episode 373: How Many Vegetables (Part 4) Powdered Veggies, Stacy and Sarah talked a lot about the power of freeze-dried veggies.

Episode 392: Are Mushrooms Really Magic? Part 2 is another great resource for nutrients that often met with barriers. Real Mushrooms offer a great supplement to fill that gap!

Fermented foods are another hurdle that can be bridged by a probiotic like the ones provided by Just Thrive.

Stacy adds to watch out for juices and pulps because you're not getting the whole form of the fruit and/or vegetable, so you may be missing out on some key nutrients.

She personally leans into smoothies as a way to "juice" without juicing.

3. Targeting For Severe Deficiencies

This doesn't necessarily mean targeted synthetic. It could easily mean targeting one of the prior mentioned categories to meet that shortfall. (43:02)

This is where you get into Sarah's "Test Don't Guess" mindset. Here is where you should work with a professional medical expert who can run tests to tell you exactly where your deficiencies are. 

Vitamin D is one of the most common deficiencies doctors see. If your Vitamin D levels are already low, it's very hard to meet that deficiency without supplement help.

Iron and vitamin B12 deficiencies are also among the most common. 

Sarah notes, however, your body could be deficient in something completely different due to genetic issues that put you at a disadvantage for absorbing it. 

Listeners might still supplement with food-based supplements, like taking Real Mushrooms D2 for vitamin D insufficiency. 

Stacy and Sarah talked in the past about Vitamin K2 and whether it's hype or Essential. Listeners might want to add Just Thrive K2 here too. 

Sarah also notes that it often takes more than just changing your diet to get to the appropriate levels with severe deficiencies.

Stacy has personal experience with B12 struggles and Vitamin K2. She shares a little bit about her journey and what she's learned from it. 

None of this stuff is something you would take without testing and monitoring from a doctor. 

Because this is the type of stuff you'd only do with a medical professional, Sarah thinks it's best to go over what types of things it would involve.

4. Targeting For Other Purposes

The "lowest hanging fruit" is digestive support supplements. Here you'd work with a practitioner to assess digestion efficacy through stool testing. (45:00)

This looks for undigested fats and proteins that would otherwise not be there if your digestive system was working optimally. 

It's important because you can eat all the nutrient-dense food you want, but your body isn't breaking them down properly for absorption, they're not providing you with the things you think they are.  

Adaptogens, vitamin C, and magnesium are used to treat adrenal fatigue and chronic stress. 

Sarah adds that adaptogens always need to be adjusted over time which is why store-bought supplements for stress management aren't as effective as you hope/think they will. 

Probiotics might be called for severe gut dysbiosis. Just Thrive is in this category! However, a medical professional will test for this and help figure out the path that's suitable for you. 

CBD for pain and inflammation. Stacy and Sarah talked in-depth about the benefits of CBD in Ep 420 CBD for Pain Management.

DIM or high crucifer intake for hormone imbalances, glutamine for leaky gut, and melatonin for sleep (Ep 314 Is Melatonin Safe) are great avenues a doctor can test for. 

Stacy adds that you might not need all of this, or you might be someone who would benefit from it.

She and Sarah have talked at length about why some supplements they've given priority over others. For example, CBD and melatonin are often lower on their priority list. 


Notes for Just Thrive Probiotic

Bacillus is spore-based bacteria naturally found in dirt that are particularly important for gut health.

They produce at least 795 different selective antibiotic molecules that inhibit pathogenic bacteria, fungi, and protozoan parasites, helping maintain a healthy gut ecosystem.

But, among the over 200 different Bacillus species currently identified, not all are equally beneficial, and some may even have pathogenic potential.

That's why it's so important to choose a probiotic supplement using only well-studied beneficial strains, like the four strains delivered by Just Thrive Probiotic.

Bacillus subtilis drives restoration of microbial diversity during infection, stabilizing the microbiome. They increase the growth of well-known probiotic species, including Lactobacillus reuteri and Lactobacillus acidophilus.

It supports gut health by producing essential enzymes to aid digestive function, producing amino acids, synthesizing vitamins, degrading cholesterol, and even contributing to intestinal homeostasis maintenance.

Bacillus subtilis can help antibiotic-induced diarrhea, ulcerative colitis, bacterial vaginosis, urinary tract infection, and candida vaginal infections.

This probiotic species improves gut health by protecting against genotoxic agents and regulating cell growth, differentiation, and signaling.

Sarah loves that Just Thrive Probiotic is free of wheat, gluten, dairy, nuts, soy, salt, sugar, artificial colors or flavors, binders, fillers, allergens, and GMO's. One of her priorities is taking Just Thrive Probiotic daily!

Historically, we were exposed to these awesome Bacillus species in dirt (for example, eating unwashed organic veggies from a local farm, compared to other probiotics that we can get from fermented foods).

But in our modern, sterile environments, Just Thrive has got us covered — no eating dirt necessary!

Sarah also always takes Just Thrive Probiotic with a meal, usually dinner.

Bacillus species are among those known to exhibit circadian rhythm in their relative abundance in healthy conditions (and lose circadian rhythm in metabolic syndrome), peaking after meals and ebbing between meals.


Final Thoughts About Supplements While On AIP

Stacy reminds listeners that AIP is an umbrella term. (1:01:20)

She feels it's important to keep nutrient density in mind, but it's crucial to make sure you don't stress yourself out about it either. It's about balance. 

While this is a lot of information to a really simple question, Sarah jokes that a short answer would've have made a very good show. So they dug in deeper than most people would normally need to go. 

Take this information about supplements while on AIP as a base knowledge for what might be beneficial to you in certain circumstances.

It's also critical to find a good practitioner to work with for any next-level stuff.

Also, don't forget to check out Just Thrive and their probiotics and other products.

Thank you, Just Thrive, for sponsoring today's show. And thank you, listeners, for hanging in. 

If you want more of the Whole View and hear how Stacy and Sarah really feel, hop on over to Patreon for bonus unfiltered content. 

See you next week!

The Whole View, Episode 444: Covid-19 Vaccine Myths and FAQ Part 4

Welcome back to episode 444 of the Whole View! This is the surprise second part of last week's Covid-19 FAQ and Myth show, which turned into a mammoth episode.

You haven't yet listened to can find the first part of the show here.

Stacy reminds listeners that she and Sarah are not medical professionals and consult your primary care doctor before making any decisions.

Myths Surrounding Enhanced Infection

First, Sarah has one more frequently asked question to cover before she gets into the real big myths. (2:04)

There has been a lot of misinformation circulating within the scientific community regarding the mRNA vaccine and the whether or not the possibility of "enhanced infection" is possible.

Hematopoietic cells originate in the bone marrow and are responsible for replenishing all types of blood cells for our entire lives.

As a result, they are very important cells in combating infection and are very plugged in to the immune system.

Sarah explains how stem cells work in the body to support and control our immune system and fight off illness.

She also adds that there is zero evidence of any vaccine, including the mRNA vaccine, jeopardizing these cells.

Sarah lists articles here and here for more information.

Just in case, Sarah runs through a hypothetical of what it would look like if these claims were possible.

Pfizer tracked 21 different types of severe infections. And they found no statistical difference between the vaccine and placebo group within 2 months of the second shot.

In Moderna, there were 521 infections or infestations (of any kind) post-vaccine and 621 post-placebo (which is no statistical difference as well).

Finally, Sarah goes over a handful of cases found in both the test and placebo group and the situations surrounding those patients to put perspective into why they might have occurred.

Antibody-Enhanced Infection 

In Episode 425, Sarah and Stacy talked about the antibody-enhanced infection in Dengue Fever cases. (8:19)

Sarah gives a brief recap of how this antibody-enhancement works.

It's important to point out that SARS-CoV-2 (as well as other coronaviruses) have not been shown to have the ability to infect macrophages.

Sarah adds that if this were a real medical concern, it would be the same for all vaccines across the board, not just mRNA vaccines.

This misconception grew from cell cultures reacting during the early vaccine research for SARS (not SARS-CoV-2 aka Covid-19).

While it is a Covid-19 vaccine myth, it did grow from a small grain of truth that we've since learned from because these experiments showed researchers needed to adjust the target.

Sarah reminds listeners that building upon past scientific discoveries is what we owe to these vaccines' speedy development.

Sarah recommends this paper for more information on the history of coronavirus vaccines.

If ADE is possible with Covid, we'll see it with natural infection first, which we have not yet seen.

She shares that scaring people with these myths, not looking at early research study as something to grow from, and using it to spread misinformation upsets her.

We are over 2.3 million deaths globally and over 470k in the USA from Covid-19.

Doing Your Own Research Is Important!

In part 2, Sarah explained that the risk of developing some of these vaccine-induced injuries is 1 in a million. However, no one wants to be that one person.

That's why it's so important to know your own health, potential risk factors, work with your doctor to use all the information available.

That way, you make a choice that works better for you as an individual. And building herd immunity in the low-risk populous will protect those who aren't well enough to get the vaccine themselves.

Sarah adds that with the way research works, there is the possibility that future data may change the landscape of this vaccine. And that's why research and education is so important.

Corporate Myths And Theories

Sarah mentions many of the "questions" she received regarding this topic weren't earnest questions from typical readers looking for information. But rather, people looking to stir up trouble. (21:20) 

She wants to include them in this show because listeners may have family members or friends who have heard them. And she wants to arm listeners with facts.

Stacy adds that if it comes from genuine ignorance and you're looking to educate yourself, there is nothing wrong with asking these types of questions!

However, when others leave inflammatory comments around these topics, she's noticed how obvious it can be that they didn't listen to the show beforehand.

They're just not interested in truth- they are only interested in their own opinion. In those cases, it's not your responsibility to engage with them if you don't want to for the sake of your own sanity.

If they're interested in knowing more, they will do their research. If not- it's not your job to fix other people.

Covid-19 Vaccine Myths: For-Profit Argument

Sarah reminds listeners that it's not in a company's best interest for their products to hurt their customers. It's not a good business model. (25:05)

Also, most of these vaccines are industry-academic partnerships. And the base science tends to be academic (source).

The studies themselves are peer-reviewed (meaning by third-party researchers in the same field), and the FDA review process is independent of scientists. 

This means there has been a TON of non-biassed eyeballs on this data.

While money may be made to some degree, all of the research done on these vaccines was done by academics (not businesses).

Covid-19 Vaccine Myths: mRNA vs. DNA

Sarah takes a minute to underline that RNA is not the same thing as DNA (27:21).

She and Stacy went in-depth in Part 1 about what role RNA plays in the body and how it does not enter the cell's nucleus (where the DNA is housed).

That's what makes mRNA technology so cool! Stacy adds how glad she is just to be aware of the "line" it won't cross. There's a whole nuclear envelope acting as a barrier.

Covid-19 Vaccine Myths: Traces of Controversial Tissue Cells

Sarah explains that neither the Pfizer nor the Moderna vaccine uses cell lines in this form or from this origin any stage of design, development, or production of these vaccines. (29:06)

She also explains what "immortalized" means, where these cells come from, and the roles (and have played) in scientific research.

There are hundreds of different types of these cells- not just the controversial source commonly associated with them.

Sarah adds the ethics in place now are different than the ethics of the 60s and 70s when this first started.

And no sample would ever be taken unless consent was given first. Some of the COVID-19 vaccines currently being studied in clinical trials have used these "historical" cell lines. 

But the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are not one of them. 

Sarah provides a list of potential vaccines to look closer into before getting if this is an issue you feel strongly about.

There is a great effort in medical research to be ethically uncontroversial, and these cloned cells are only used if alternative ones cannot be.

Covid-19 Vaccine Myths: Hidden Foreign Bodies

Sarah looked into the needles' diameter used with the coronavirus vaccines and how small something would need to be injected into the skin. (37:24)

Anything small enough to hide in a needle would not be able to be read from something as far away as outer space.

Sarah goes through how big these foreign objects would need to be to transmit various distances.

Basically, with the way currents move and physics laws, it's an impossible technology and would burn out pretty quickly.

Covid-19 Vaccine Myths: Bribing Dr. Sarah's

Sarah has received comments regarding her integrity regarding these topics and whether she's been bought off. (41:03)

The answer to that is no. Stacy adds that both she and Sarah genuinely care about the health of their listeners. They've dedicated their careers to health and wellness.

She adds how thankful she is for the "big brain" audience she and Sarah have and the mutual interest in facts and science.

Sarah has applied the same rigorous research to this show as she does every other show.

All she and Stacy aim to do is help people expand their knowledge base to make everyday decisions without guilt, pressure, or lack of understanding challenges.

Everything they do is present science in the most balanced way possible.

Sarah adds that she's a scientist. She's a nerd. All she's really interested in is the facts.

Roll-Out Priorities & Challenges

The rate at which the vaccine can be produced is the reason behind roll-out priority for who gets the vaccine. (47:20)

Basically, they haven't made enough vaccines yet for everyone to get one and focus on people who need it the most while they ramp up production.

Priorities are healthcare professionals and the people who are more likely to get a severe disease and die.

There are different ways to define these populations, and some states are doing it differently. Here are the Phases the CDC recommends:

  • 1a - healthcare personnel, long-term care facility residents
  • 1b - frontline essential workers, persons aged 75+
  • 1c - persons aged 65-74, persons aged 16-64 with high-risk conditions, essential workers not recommended in Phase 1b
  • 2 - everybody else

There have been racial inequities in vaccine distribution which is very upsetting to Sarah because the black community is 1.4X more likely to get Covid and 2.5X more likely to die from Covid.

She attributes this to the compounding of different things, including systemic racism and the prevalence of that community in frontline positions.

Less than half of the states keep track of demographic data for vaccine distribution, but we know so far that there are big inequities in distribution (source).

This is a problem that public health officials need to solve. And there are some really good ideas being considered- like mobile sites, door-to-door. 

You can donate to advocacy agencies to help and not participate in vaccine tourism!

Who Should Wait to Get a Vaccine?

Children 15 and younger because clinical trials for that age group have not been approved yet.

Pregnant/lactating women, immunocompromised individuals, anyone on immune-suppressing drugs (even prednisone), and people with multiple severe/anaphylactic allergies should all talk to their doctor.

Anyone with a known allergy to PEG (found in some other vaccines, medications, and laxatives) should also wait.

It's also not recommended for the terminally ill or all elderly.

Sarah also explains a bit about why some governments throughout the world are holding back and why.

She attributes this to trying to get the best out of a limited number of vaccines.

Vaccine Aftercare

Sarah takes another listener question on whether taking Advil or Tylenol after being vaccinated impacts how well it works. (58:25)

She explains that something like Advil is anti-inflammatory will suppress some of the immune response, which is counterproductive to the goal.

She adds that this is actually true for all vaccines!

Instead, you should do the same thing as if you were recovering from a cold or flu: rest, fluids, and nutrient-density focus. 

It's also noteworthy that adults don't take very many 2-shot vaccinations. 

DTap booster every 10 years and maybe annual flu vaccine are both 1-shots. 

The flu-like symptoms come from the second shot (which we're not used to getting). And it's important to rest and recover!

Further Citations & Scientific Literature

Summary of mRNA vaccine technology

Covid Immunity, relevance to all vaccines in development

Moderna mRNA-1273:

Pfizer BNT162b2: 


Final Thoughts

Stacy thanks any and all listeners for hanging with them through everything! (1:03:01)

She invites anyone who hasn't already joined their Patreon family to consider doing so.

Patreon listeners get bonus content on what Sarah and Stacy really feel about these topics.

Also, Stacy encourages anyone willing to leave a review about the Whole View to do so.

Due to vaccines being such a sensitive topic, your review would help balance negative ones left by those who disagree but don't bother listening to the show.

Thank you so much for listening. Be safe. Be healthy. And we will see you next week!

The Whole View, Episode 443: Covid-19 Vaccines Part 3 - Myths and FAQ’s

Welcome back to episode 443 of the Whole View. (0:27)      

Stacy explains that this is part 3 of the Covid Vaccine Shows: you can find Part 1 here and Part 2 here.

She thanks every listener for all their positivity and understanding. The point of these shows is to give the information needed to make an informed decision for yourself.

She also extends a bit thanks to Sarah, who has logged a ridiculous amount of hours doing extensive research to arm listeners with all the information she can.

Sarah explains that this show may be on the long side. But she hopes to answer some questions followers have and dispel or shed light on common myths around these vaccines.

Stacy adds that this show is all about the facts. Nothing they say is meant to be opinion based not backed up by science.

She also reminds listeners that she and Sarah are not medical professionals. They are not qualified to give medical advice on whether you should get the vaccine or not.

The best practice is to consult your primary care physician.

Stacy hopes that all this information can help listeners make an informed decision they are happy with.

Listener FAQ: Covid-19 Vaccines Myths

Sarah goes through several positive comments left by viewers, expressing their appreciation of the science included in previous shows and arming them with as much research as Sarah did. (7:45)   

She takes a moment to emphasize that the FDA reports and all of the peer-reviewed papers on these clinical trials are full public access. 

They will be included in these show notes so listeners can go to the source for more information and formulate their own opinions based on the science.

Stacy jokes that will be a theme of the show today: science and information.

The first question Sarah takes comes from a listener on Patreon.

Sarah reminds listeners that Patreon is the best platform to reach them and was the first place they went when pulling questions. 

If you've not joined the Patreon family, she invites you to for bonus content and extra episodes!

Herd Immunity

The first question Sarah takes is about herd immunity and why wearing masks is still encouraged after vaccination. (13:30)

Sarah explains the there are multiple positive outcomes that we hope to get from the vaccines:

  • Prevent disability and death
  • Ease the burden on the healthcare system to ensure patients get the necessary attention
  • Ease the burden on the economy so we can open schools, etc. back up
  • Achieve herd immunity, so we don't have to live with covid forever

She adds that even if we can achieve the first three without the fourth, that's a huge win, and we don't necessarily need herd immunity for the vaccine to be a success.

The benefit of herd immunity (why it's ideal) is it limits the spread to pockets that more easily die out because they don't have as many places to go.

Sarah explains that we don't have all the information yet to determine how long immunity from vaccination will last.

There is still a lot of tests needing to be done to accurately calculate those numbers.

Sarah does say that the preliminary data (early outlooks) looks promising for reducing asymptomatic cases.

That's why it's still important to wear a mask in the meantime. We need to keep the disease spread as low as possible to give researchers time to figure out what the future will look like for herd immunity.

Sarah adds that this is actually very exciting early data. She explains data for the newer Oxford/Astrazeneca vaccine maybe 59 percent effective at stopping asymptomatic infection.

However, Sarah emphasizes that we definitely need more data before saying people with the vaccine can go without masks and social distancing.

Long-Term Effects of Asymptomatic Cases 

Sarah jumps to another listener's question on whether those asymptomatic or mild cases carry the risks of long covid or other long-term damage. (22:32)

Sarah recaps long-covid, which she and Stacy talked about long covid and tissue damage on our previous covid shows.

She does a quick recap on what long-term effects are known to be associated with Covid-19 infections, such as the tissue damage seen in long-Covid. 

There's no evidence from the clinical trials about possible long-term damage comparable to mild cases.

Myocarditis is shown to occur in between 15-35% of covid patients and even 15% in young college athletes with mild or asymptomatic cases.

Sarah reminds listeners that not everyone who gets covid will suffer permanent heart damage. She does agree it's a concern but doesn't want to scare anyone.

While this hasn't been methodically studied yet, the early data points to the only likely long-term effect of getting vaccinated being immunity to covid-19.

Stacy adds that many people involved in the clinical trials actually reached out to her and Sarah.

They spoke of the attentiveness they experienced and how closely monitored they were. 

Stacy thanks those followers for sharing their crucial experiences!

Stacy also shares her experiences with long-covid and does not wish it on anyone.

Both vaccines were thoroughly tested for anything and everything that could possibly go wrong.

Pregnant Women

Another listener asks if the Covid-19 vaccines are safe for pregnant women and children yet, due to it being super unclear in the media. (37:20)

Pregnant women were excluded from trials, but some became pregnant after enrolling. Those women were followed closely for monitoring. 

There is very limited human testing in this area. However, WHO recently said pregnant women can get the covid vaccine due to the few cases. No issues with pregnancy were detected in animal studies of vaccines.

Sarah mentions that pregnant women are considered high-risk, and that's definitely something to keep in mind when deciding if vaccination is right for you.

Pregnant women are overall 3-3.5x more likely to require ventilation. And 70% more likely to die from covid than their age and risk factor-matched controls.

It's even worse for AMA, pregnant women aged 35–44 years with COVID-19: 

  • nearly four times as likely to require invasive ventilation
  • twice as likely to die than were non-pregnant women of the same age

Sarah recommends reviewing this article for more information.

She also mentions that despite being considered "high-risk," the absolute risk is still low.

This is why even though data is preliminary for vaccines, some organizations recommend it. 

CDC recommends pregnant women have a conversation with their doctors.

Another listener asks for recommendations for breastfeeding. Sarah says that nothing is saying that breastfeeding could be problematic. But it does warrant a conversation with your doctor.

Stacy adds that what's in your blood is different from what's in your milk.


Pfizer already tested in 16-18-year-olds. It showed good safety, efficacy consistent with adult data and already has EUA to 16+. (40:41)

Pfizer is currently testing in 12-15-year-olds, fully enrolled, and expect data in the summer.

Moderna is currently testing 12 to 18-year-olds, still enrolling, and hoping to have approval in time for 2021/2022 school year. 

Sarah actually enrolled her daughter because they are having issues filling slots for those studies. She and her family are waiting to find out if she'll be in the trial.

Then they'll move into younger and younger children (6-11 then 1-5). 

They go slow, start with a lower dose to be extra cautious, and so these trials take longer.

Moderna doesn't expect to have data in children 1 to 11 until well into 2022, so we just have to wait for now.

Young Women and Future Pregnancy

Sarah addresses a question from a listener regarding information she heard about the possibility of hurting the lining of their placenta when they want to have children. What is the premise of this? (49:50)

She explains that this is one of those myths based on a kernel of truth but took on a life of its own on the internet.

Sarah goes in-depth about the spike protein and how antibodies affect them. She adds that the same thing has a chance of happening in natural infection.

And even then, the numbers are very slim.

Sarah summarizes that it's not impossible but highly improbable, and we have no examples to point to.

Autoimmune Diseases In More Detail

Sarah covers another question on whether a vaccine could cause something with no history of autoimmune conditions to trigger a response for a lifelong autoimmune condition. (53:02)

She goes in-depth, looking at numerous case reports indicating that vaccines could potentially worsen autoimmune disease activity and increase measurable autoantibody levels. 

This is most likely attributed to the adjuvants in vaccines. 

However, several large-scale prospective studies indicate no link between vaccines and autoimmune disease or autoantibody formation. 

Sarah explores several different studies that looked at this research topic and breaks down what the data shows. 

In fact, early data shows vaccines could potentially reduce autoimmune diseases by preventing environmental triggers for it.

However, this still needs to be studied in a lot more detail before we can say for sure.

Sarah adds that for the covid mRNA vaccines, clinical trials included autoimmune sufferers (even those on DMARDS) and tracked autoimmune disease as possible adverse events.

Sarah revisits vaccine injury, which they discussed in the Covid first show, and the timeframe.

She adds EAU will transition to full regulatory approval once there are 6 months of follow-up data and we're actually nearly there. Clinical trial participants will also be followed for 24 months.

Final Thoughts

Stacy reflects on how much it blows her mind the comparison between the study group and the placebo. (1:07:14)

When out of 30,000 people, you have one person in the study group and one placebo group both have an immune response, it sounds way better to Stacy than if that's the same one person was extrapolated from the data, and the rest left out.

Sarah reiterates that this is the point of these shows: to provide listeners with the big picture and all the data. Not facts that may or may not have been taken out of context.

Stacy mentions that she and Sarah didn't want to skimp on any information. For this reason, decided to cut this two-hour show into two parts. 

Join us again next week for more Covid-19 vaccine myths dispelled! And be sure to pop over and join Sarah and Stacy on Patreon.

The Whole View, Episode 442: How Do I Know what Dietary Protocol to Start with?  

Welcome back to episode 442 of the Whole View. (0:27)      

Stacy welcomes listeners to the show! She hopes everyone has had a great start to the year so far, but if not, it's a new month.

Today's topic is dietary protocol. And Stacy hopes listeners have been seeing fewer advertisements and pressure to conform to a dietary standard that could end up making them not feel right. 

She and Sarah, as always, will approach this topic from the perspective of addressing the difference in the dietary protocols that are focused on health.

Stacy also takes a moment to remind listeners that all the information in this show comes from a place of optimizing health. 

They are not here to tell you to lose weight and fit into your jeans, but rather help you feel better, inside and out. This is a safe place to learn and not to feel pressured.

Listener Question

Sarah reflects on how much this show has documented her and Stacy's individual health journeys and the ups and downs that they've experienced. (4:03)

They are not the type of people to hide their challenges to paint a rosy picture or endorse that approach. 

Their main goal is to endorse a solution-oriented mindset about health, doable, approachable, and sustainable. 

Sherly asks:

Hello Dr. Sarah and Stacy! I was so happy to find your podcast during these strange times and have found all your Covid shows so helpful. I understand that neither of you strictly follow any of the diets you talk about on the show (AIP, Sarah’s Gut Health Diet and Paleo) but rather used them to find out what worked best for you over time. For those of us just starting out how do we go about picking a diet to start from? Is there a hierarchy here? And where does being a “nutrivore” fit into all of this? Apologies if you have already covered this, but I am slowly working my way through your shows. I have come to trust your recommendations and I would like to re-do my own way of eating, I just don't know where to start. Thanks in advance for your help!

The Quick Answer

Stacy explains that, in brief, the autoimmune protocol is an additional step beyond the paleo diet. Its driving strategy is to eliminate potentially inflammatory foods out of the diet still included in paleo (including nightshades).

Nutrivore is more concerned with nutrient-density and taking care of your gut microbiome health.

Sarah jokes and congratulates Stacy for pulling off a great elevator pitch! Though, Stacy urges listeners to stick around a bit longer because there is a lot more to the science behind these protocols.

Sarah explains that the lines between each dietary protocol are pretty blurry. She attributes that blurriness to how these lines are used to hone in on a personalized optimal diet.

She and Stacy have both used these protocols to target their individual triggers and build a diet that works for them.

Sarah and Stacy do not do on this show are rigid rules, "perfection-or-bust," or one-side-fits-all.

Instead, they encourage the understanding of universal truths and bio-individuality.

The Dietary Protocol Hierarchy

Stacy reminds listeners that there is such a thing as taking too big of an initial jump. (13:16)

It's essential to listen to your body and tell you what you need or crave.

Top Level: Nutrivore

The idea of nutrivore is to eat all the nutrients available, both essential and non-essential, that we need to thrive.

This includes nutrients to support a healthy gut microbiome and is very similar to the gut health diet.

The gut health diet provides just a little extra focus above and beyond nutrient sufficiency.

Sarah references Episode 437: Intro To Nutrivore as a great reference if you're looking to focus on a nutrient-dense diet.

She thinks of this as a diet modifier, meaning you can apply nutrivore to any other diet template, including the other protocols on this list.

However, the exception to the "umbrella" of nutrivore is extreme diets, such as raw vegan, carnivore, or some keto variants, which cut out all food sources of specific nutrients. 

Sarah explains the benefit of nutrivore is the ability to give the body all the "building blocks" it needs to do its job on a cellular level.

Paleo Plus or 80/20 Paleo

Sarah explains there are many different versions of the Paleo diet. (18:50)

This is a version that adds a few nutrient-dense, gut microbiome superfoods to provide some extra flexibility.

The most common additions are grass-fed (hopefully A2) dairy, traditionally-prepared legumes, sprouted pseudo-grains, and rice.

“Strict” Paleo

Ideally, this would be implemented with the guiding principles of a nutrivore approach. (20:01)

But it also eliminates empty calorie foods that are often allergy triggers or anything that wouldn't have been available to our primitive ancestors. 

The foods eliminated (processed/refined foods, grains, legumes, and dairy) most commonly drive inflammation while not contributing meaningfully in terms of nutrients.

Paleo should still include an elimination and challenge aspect. 

This is where you do "strict" Paleo for a few weeks to months and then test your individual tolerance to non-Paleo foods to see how you react.


AIP is the strictest dietary protocol. (23:56)

Nutrivore is the core of this protocol but with the addition of eliminating a larger collection of foods known to cause inflammation.

On top of processed and refined foods, grains, legumes, and dairy, AIP also eliminates eggs, nightshades, nuts, seeds, alcohol.

This dietary protocol includes an equal focus on lifestyle, such as sleep, stress, activity, nature, and connection.

It involves three phases: Elimination, Reintroduction, Maintenance.

Sarah explains that AIP is not meant to be a long-term solution. But rather, the hope is to empower you through self-discovery and set you on a dietary path that works best for you as an individual

Lastly, Sarah recommends visiting the AIP Coach Directory if you're interested in receiving more AIP information.

Dietary Protocol: Where To Start?

Stacy explains that everyone is different, and there is a lot of wiggle room to make sure they are working optimally for you. (27:30)

Moreover, many of them, especially FODMAP diets, aren't meant to be upheld long-term. In those cases, they are more designed for symptom maintenance. 

Sarah explains that anything layer to think about is food sensitivities. 

There is an extra challenge when you have a hyperactive immune system and an unhealthy gut that you can develop allergies, intolerances, or sensitivities to foods that are always super healthy and otherwise something you wouldn't eliminate.

Part of the self-discovery stage could include working with a specialist to target what could be triggering your individual symptoms.

Because we are all different, Sarah explains that deciding where to start depends on few different factors.

Health Challenges And Goals

This is the first side of the coins, Sarah explains. (33:47)

AIP is usually recommended for autoimmune disease or chronic disease.

Paleo or Paleo Plus is great for symptoms without a diagnosis, and using a food journal to target other potential food sensitivities.

Nutrivore or Paleo Plus works well for age-related health challenges.

And if you have no health challenges, in particular, Sarah recommends starting top-tier with Nutrivore.

Mitigating or managing autoimmune or chronic disease, AIP is a good strategy to use.

If you're looking for a healthy weight loss (see our show on weight stigma!), Paleo or Paleo Plus might work best for you. Unless your weight gain is related to autoimmune diseases, like hypothyroidism.

Nutrivore or Paleo Plus is great for people looking for a performance diet or healthy aging.

And for general health, nutrivore is always a great protocol to implement.


Sarah explains to listeners that you don't want to make it so challenging day-to-day that you can't stick with it. The idea is to set yourself up for success, see results, and improve your health.

We often justify actions centered on the idea of weight loss and claim that it's for health.

Stacy reminds listeners that diet culture is so pervasive that we don't even realize we're swimming in it. And that we must look at whether or not we feel good.

Especially when it comes to inflammation and autoimmune. It's very important for Stacy that her joint pain is manageable as she ages.

Stacy also shares that at one point, she was using dietary protocols and "getting healthy" as an excuse for losing weight.

She really wants to encourage everyone to ask those questions and challenge themselves and the reasons behind their choices.

You can want to be the best version of yourself while loving and respecting who you are today, without all the ugliness that comes with the culture around it.

Stacy also underlines the importance of emotional and lifestyle aspects and that you can't just diet your way into being healthy.

A few solutions to overcoming barriers are education, coaching, support network, flexibility, and lifestyle before diet.

Maybe you're just not used to shopping/cooking/eating this way.

It could be your budget, time management, energy, or symptoms getting in the way. Maybe your family isn't on board (temptation, no support, cooking for 2+ different diets).

History of yo-yo diet, on-again-off-again, and bad relationships with food can also get in the way.

Final Thoughts

Sarah explains that sometimes the best place to start isn't diet at all. (48:03)

Often, when she gets this question, she asks whether or not the person is getting enough sleep.

This way, we can set up for success before we even get started on changing our diet. 

Sarah references this show for any listeners looking for a reference on the Science Of Habits.

She reminds listeners that this is a journey! There is no one way to do it, and any steps you take on that journey is a great way to do it. 

This really comes down to who you are as a person and how you're able to best perform a task- whether incrementally.

It needs to be an individual choice and a choice you're willing to re-evaluate as you go.

Sarah underlines that the most important thing about starting a health journey is to start it.

Stacy adds that it's not so much what step to take to get you started but what steps will be sustainable.

Stacy talks about how this played into the inspiration behind their third book, Real Life Paleo.

She reminds listeners that messing up isn't a failure. It's about continuing to try.

Sarah agrees, adding not to let perfection be the enemy of the good. It's all about our choices, and we should never feel guilt or shame about them.

The key part of this journey is learning about our bodies well enough to know what we'll be able to come back from and what we never want to repeat again (like the last time Sarah ate gluten).

Stacy encourages listeners to look at healthy choices as an act of self-love for themselves and their bodies.

Thank you so much for listening! Stacy and Sarah are so thankful to have such a fantastic community.

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